Discussion:
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006 pedophile frank mccoy
(too old to reply)
bobandcarole~
2006-12-29 04:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.

<Drum roll>

WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank! Good work on living
up
to this award in the most exhaustive way possible...and taking it like
a
good sport when you realized that you'd been had. I'd advise you to
stop
posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am, but I
have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.


FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties. Drop him a flame.......
Max Grrl
2006-12-29 04:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.

He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?

Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
--
Max Grrl
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-29 13:50:26 UTC
Permalink
Genius! masterfull post. Can't distinguish creative writing from RL.
Believes a person that posts fictional accounts of illegal behavior,
would then engage in the behavior. A lot like waving your arms over
your head, and hollering at the cops "Here I am. Please arrest me"
Duuuh-- Yup, I believe everything on the internet. Uh huh, I really,
really and truely do.
cut2open
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
--
Max Grrl
Max Grrl
2006-12-29 16:46:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Genius! masterfull post. Can't distinguish creative writing from RL.
Believes a person that posts fictional accounts of illegal behavior,
would then engage in the behavior. A lot like waving your arms over
your head, and hollering at the cops "Here I am. Please arrest me"
Duuuh-- Yup, I believe everything on the internet. Uh huh, I really,
really and truely do.
cut2open
You prolly do.
*shrugs*

*peers at the lil fucktard's nym*
Hmmm . . . were you too unimaginative to come up with your own nym -
or too pussy?

Or do you just have a stiffy for Bob? You like guys that beat the shit
outta you? You into . . . the rough stuff, Dribbles? Does getting
beaten with 4x4 turn you on? How about chopped up into tiny pieces? If
Bob's too busy to play with you, I'll give you a lil playtime. : )

Bob! You've got an admirer! : )
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
--
Max Grrl
--
Max Grrl
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-30 14:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Genius! masterfull post. Can't distinguish creative writing from RL.
Believes a person that posts fictional accounts of illegal behavior,
would then engage in the behavior. A lot like waving your arms over
your head, and hollering at the cops "Here I am. Please arrest me"
Duuuh-- Yup, I believe everything on the internet. Uh huh, I really,
really and truely do.
cut2open
You prolly do.
*shrugs*
*peers at the lil fucktard's nym*
Hmmm . . . were you too unimaginative to come up with your own nym -
or too pussy?
Or do you just have a stiffy for Bob? You like guys that beat the shit
outta you? You into . . . the rough stuff, Dribbles? Does getting
beaten with 4x4 turn you on? How about chopped up into tiny pieces? If
Bob's too busy to play with you, I'll give you a lil playtime. : )
Bob! You've got an admirer! : )
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
--
Max Grrl
--
Max Grrl
Does getting beaten with 4x4 turn you on? How about chopped up into
tiny pieces? If Bob's too busy to play with you, I'll give you a lil
playtime. : )

scratches head. ... Playtime?
cut2open
Max Grrl
2006-12-30 19:30:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Genius! masterfull post. Can't distinguish creative writing from RL.
Believes a person that posts fictional accounts of illegal behavior,
would then engage in the behavior. A lot like waving your arms over
your head, and hollering at the cops "Here I am. Please arrest me"
Duuuh-- Yup, I believe everything on the internet. Uh huh, I really,
really and truely do.
cut2open
You prolly do.
*shrugs*
*peers at the lil fucktard's nym*
Hmmm . . . were you too unimaginative to come up with your own nym -
or too pussy?
Or do you just have a stiffy for Bob? You like guys that beat the shit
outta you? You into . . . the rough stuff, Dribbles? Does getting
beaten with 4x4 turn you on? How about chopped up into tiny pieces? If
Bob's too busy to play with you, I'll give you a lil playtime. : )
Bob! You've got an admirer! : )
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
--
Max Grrl
--
Max Grrl
Does getting beaten with 4x4 turn you on? How about chopped up into
tiny pieces? If Bob's too busy to play with you, I'll give you a lil
playtime. : )
scratches head. ... Playtime?
To me, chopping up shit like you into tiny lil pieces is every bit as
satisfying as making lil kids cry and their assholes hurt is to you. :
)
Post by b***@yahoo.com
cut2open
Is that an offer?
I accept. : )
--
Max Grrl
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-31 11:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Genius! masterfull post. Can't distinguish creative writing from RL.
Believes a person that posts fictional accounts of illegal behavior,
would then engage in the behavior. A lot like waving your arms over
your head, and hollering at the cops "Here I am. Please arrest me"
Duuuh-- Yup, I believe everything on the internet. Uh huh, I really,
really and truely do.
cut2open
You prolly do.
*shrugs*
*peers at the lil fucktard's nym*
Hmmm . . . were you too unimaginative to come up with your own nym -
or too pussy?
Or do you just have a stiffy for Bob? You like guys that beat the shit
outta you? You into . . . the rough stuff, Dribbles? Does getting
beaten with 4x4 turn you on? How about chopped up into tiny pieces? If
Bob's too busy to play with you, I'll give you a lil playtime. : )
Bob! You've got an admirer! : )
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way
possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been
had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
--
Max Grrl
--
Max Grrl
Does getting beaten with 4x4 turn you on? How about chopped up into
tiny pieces? If Bob's too busy to play with you, I'll give you a lil
playtime. : )
scratches head. ... Playtime?
To me, chopping up shit like you into tiny lil pieces is every bit as
)
Post by b***@yahoo.com
cut2open
Is that an offer?
I accept. : )
--
Max Grrl
I think your're sweet. Maybe cute?
cut2open
Max Grrl
2007-01-01 00:43:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Genius! masterfull post. Can't distinguish creative writing from RL.
Believes a person that posts fictional accounts of illegal behavior,
would then engage in the behavior. A lot like waving your arms over
your head, and hollering at the cops "Here I am. Please arrest me"
Duuuh-- Yup, I believe everything on the internet. Uh huh, I really,
really and truely do.
cut2open
You prolly do.
*shrugs*
*peers at the lil fucktard's nym*
Hmmm . . . were you too unimaginative to come up with your own nym -
or too pussy?
Or do you just have a stiffy for Bob? You like guys that beat the shit
outta you? You into . . . the rough stuff, Dribbles? Does getting
beaten with 4x4 turn you on? How about chopped up into tiny pieces? If
Bob's too busy to play with you, I'll give you a lil playtime. : )
Bob! You've got an admirer! : )
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance
on
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can
write
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . .
I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way
possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd
been
had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be
well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying
to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
--
Max Grrl
--
Max Grrl
Does getting beaten with 4x4 turn you on? How about chopped up into
tiny pieces? If Bob's too busy to play with you, I'll give you a lil
playtime. : )
scratches head. ... Playtime?
To me, chopping up shit like you into tiny lil pieces is every bit as
)
Post by b***@yahoo.com
cut2open
Is that an offer?
I accept. : )
--
Max Grrl
I think your're sweet. Maybe cute?
Well, yeah, I've been told that numerous times . . . however, being
over the age of 12, I'm too old for you. Sorry. : (
Post by b***@yahoo.com
cut2open
Tease.
--
Max Grrl
4s00th
2006-12-29 21:48:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Another problem I have with bo0B is that he doesn't seem to know the
difference between fictional stories and real life. And, I'd also like
to point out that writing down or orally recording fantasies is a
common therapy assigned to pedophiles. It's called Satiation Therapy,
and the idea is that going over and over the fantasies is supposed to
"satiate" the desire. Hey, I didn't make that up!
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Just for info -- alt.callahans is a newsgroup for fans of Spider
Robinson's great Callahan short stories and novels. They believe that
you accept people as they are -- and that you can only judge them by
their actions, not their thoughts. One of the more popular quotes is
"Pain shared is pain halved; joy shared is joy doubled."

My personal favorite of the novels is "Lady Slings the Booze," which
takes place in bartender Mike Callahan's wife's place -- Lady Sally's
well-known brothel. The puns are truly horrific -- and the title ought
to give you a hint!
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
Yes, bo0B would just love it if you go flame alt.callahans and find
out that they're actually a really great group of people. In fact,
they would really like you, Max -- because they understand that people
want to do things that they know they shouldn't. And they embrace
people who refuse to succumb to temptation.

4s00th
Max Grrl
2006-12-30 06:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?

They say "life imitates art" - sometimes that's a heinous thing. And in
this case, it CAN be. I fuck around here and make threats - mainly
because that's how and who I am. But I've never written anything that
would be fodder for my kind - nothing that would actually inspire
another like me to act on those urges. Mainly, I leave out the . . .
um . . . descriptive parts - sound, smell, pain. The adjectives and
descriptors that would make it interesting for someone of my ilk and
might inspire them. Even though I would LIKE to indulge, I don't.
Because I know how fucking HARD it is to keep control when presented
with temptations.

In my own personal group - many of us DO write stories of violence and
murder and outside of group have agreed that doing so only makes the
urges harder to resist. So several of my "mates" do a halfass job of it
so they can tell the doc, "Oh yeah, I've been writing them and it's
helping me" when in reality, it makes the urges much more urgent and
attractive. We ask ourselves WHAT would make it better? HOW would we do
it? Would we get caught?

In any addiction (and I'm using that term loosely here) you don't sniff
a lil glue and say it's enough - you don't do just one tiny hit of
crack and say "That's it, I'm done." You want MORE. You want BETTER.
You want it REAL.

And that's my point on that subject.

But really, on that post, my intention was to state that he's not
writing those stories for his kind, to help his kind, he's doing it for
his own self-serving needs. Because he WANTS to.
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Another problem I have with bo0B is that he doesn't seem to know the
difference between fictional stories and real life. And, I'd also like
to point out that writing down or orally recording fantasies is a
common therapy assigned to pedophiles. It's called Satiation Therapy,
and the idea is that going over and over the fantasies is supposed to
"satiate" the desire. Hey, I didn't make that up!
Not saying you did. We do it too, in our way. But see above.
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Just for info -- alt.callahans is a newsgroup for fans of Spider
Robinson's great Callahan short stories and novels. They believe that
you accept people as they are -- and that you can only judge them by
their actions, not their thoughts. One of the more popular quotes is
"Pain shared is pain halved; joy shared is joy doubled."
My personal favorite of the novels is "Lady Slings the Booze," which
takes place in bartender Mike Callahan's wife's place -- Lady Sally's
well-known brothel. The puns are truly horrific -- and the title ought
to give you a hint!
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
Yes, bo0B would just love it if you go flame alt.callahans and find
out that they're actually a really great group of people. In fact,
they would really like you, Max -- because they understand that people
want to do things that they know they shouldn't. And they embrace
people who refuse to succumb to temptation.
But to be honest, I wouldn't like them. I'd never go to an NG like that
in a million years. I don't want to be embraced - it means nothing to
me (cause I can't FEEL - so I can't FEEL loved, can't FEEL like I
belong) - it would be more stress in really having to pretend to be
into it or what have you (not sure if I got my point across).

And besides that, around "norms" I always "feel" like a fox in the
henhouse. Too many people are too much temptation. And too many people
reaching out is even more so.

Even with you, at best I can say that I know what you go through -
because I have to use the utmost control in my daily life. And I think
based on that, I can kinda "bond with you." But in RL or even in here,
if you "reach out" or "embrace me" it means absolutely nothing to me.
Not because I don't want it to, but because I'm simply incapable. I get
no more out of someone loving me (or hating me) than the average person
watching bread toast. At the most, all I can do in either case (loving
or hating) is honestly wonder "why?" Feelings don't make sense to me.
: )

The best illustration (or rather, the closest) I've ever found was of
the snake and the farmer in Aesop's Fables. If you don't know it
(though you more than likely do): A farmer is traveling along a road in
the coldest of winter when he spies on the road a frozen snake. Feeling
pity for the creature, he takes the snake and puts it under his
clothing, against his breast to warm it. As they travel, the snake
gradually warms up. The snake, once warm, bites the farmer mortally on
the breast. As the farmer dies, he asks the snake "Why would you do
this to me? I found you, warmed you and saved your life!" and the snake
replied "I can't help it, it's my nature."

There's also the one about the mouse carrying the snake across a river
(where the snake indulges in his natural instinct and bites the mouse -
therefore they both drown), but I like this one better. The snake
remains alive. ; )

So, no, callahans isn't for the likes of me. : )
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
--
Max Grrl
4s00th
2006-12-30 12:42:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
They say "life imitates art" - sometimes that's a heinous thing. And in
this case, it CAN be. I fuck around here and make threats - mainly
because that's how and who I am. But I've never written anything that
would be fodder for my kind - nothing that would actually inspire
another like me to act on those urges. Mainly, I leave out the . . .
um . . . descriptive parts - sound, smell, pain. The adjectives and
descriptors that would make it interesting for someone of my ilk and
might inspire them. Even though I would LIKE to indulge, I don't.
Because I know how fucking HARD it is to keep control when presented
with temptations.
In my own personal group - many of us DO write stories of violence and
murder and outside of group have agreed that doing so only makes the
urges harder to resist. So several of my "mates" do a halfass job of it
so they can tell the doc, "Oh yeah, I've been writing them and it's
helping me" when in reality, it makes the urges much more urgent and
attractive. We ask ourselves WHAT would make it better? HOW would we do
it? Would we get caught?
In any addiction (and I'm using that term loosely here) you don't sniff
a lil glue and say it's enough - you don't do just one tiny hit of
crack and say "That's it, I'm done." You want MORE. You want BETTER.
You want it REAL.
And that's my point on that subject.
But really, on that post, my intention was to state that he's not
writing those stories for his kind, to help his kind, he's doing it for
his own self-serving needs. Because he WANTS to.
I can't speeak to Frank's motives. Yes, I know he has an agenda that I
do not condone, and maybe that's his point, but I don't find his
"propaganda" believeable enough to think that'll do it! I mean, I've
had to work with people who suffered CSA, and none of them act like
the people in his stories -- surprise, surprise, surprise!

However, I don't really see pedophilia as an adiction. I'm not driven
to have sex with children -- although I do have a sex drive. I agree
that if I became an offender that I would be more likely to repeat;
after all, if you get away with it once, you're bound to think you can
get away with it twice, right? But as far as feeling compelled -- no,
that's not part of the problem for me, and trust me, I know
compulsions only too well!

And I find that some "reading material" helps me -- I get off on it,
and the sexual drive is satisfied so that I take that part out of the
equation. However, I do remember going through a period when I was
reading this shit and saying -- "Geez, is everyone getting some but
me?" But of course, the fallacy there is that there is a difference
between fiction and reality, and once I put that into perspective, it
went away.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Another problem I have with bo0B is that he doesn't seem to know the
difference between fictional stories and real life. And, I'd also like
to point out that writing down or orally recording fantasies is a
common therapy assigned to pedophiles. It's called Satiation Therapy,
and the idea is that going over and over the fantasies is supposed to
"satiate" the desire. Hey, I didn't make that up!
Not saying you did. We do it too, in our way. But see above.
No, I realize that. But it does sound rather fantastical that
therapists would actually encourage it. The sad part is that a
Colorado man was jailed for doing this -- he was court ordered to
comply with therapy, but when he did comply, the court decided that by
keeping his journal, he was breaking the rules by having KP.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Just for info -- alt.callahans is a newsgroup for fans of Spider
Robinson's great Callahan short stories and novels. They believe that
you accept people as they are -- and that you can only judge them by
their actions, not their thoughts. One of the more popular quotes is
"Pain shared is pain halved; joy shared is joy doubled."
My personal favorite of the novels is "Lady Slings the Booze," which
takes place in bartender Mike Callahan's wife's place -- Lady Sally's
well-known brothel. The puns are truly horrific -- and the title ought
to give you a hint!
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
Yes, bo0B would just love it if you go flame alt.callahans and find
out that they're actually a really great group of people. In fact,
they would really like you, Max -- because they understand that people
want to do things that they know they shouldn't. And they embrace
people who refuse to succumb to temptation.
But to be honest, I wouldn't like them. I'd never go to an NG like that
in a million years. I don't want to be embraced - it means nothing to
me (cause I can't FEEL - so I can't FEEL loved, can't FEEL like I
belong) - it would be more stress in really having to pretend to be
into it or what have you (not sure if I got my point across).
And besides that, around "norms" I always "feel" like a fox in the
henhouse. Too many people are too much temptation. And too many people
reaching out is even more so.
Even with you, at best I can say that I know what you go through -
because I have to use the utmost control in my daily life. And I think
based on that, I can kinda "bond with you." But in RL or even in here,
if you "reach out" or "embrace me" it means absolutely nothing to me.
Not because I don't want it to, but because I'm simply incapable. I get
no more out of someone loving me (or hating me) than the average person
watching bread toast. At the most, all I can do in either case (loving
or hating) is honestly wonder "why?" Feelings don't make sense to me.
: )
The best illustration (or rather, the closest) I've ever found was of
the snake and the farmer in Aesop's Fables. If you don't know it
(though you more than likely do): A farmer is traveling along a road in
the coldest of winter when he spies on the road a frozen snake. Feeling
pity for the creature, he takes the snake and puts it under his
clothing, against his breast to warm it. As they travel, the snake
gradually warms up. The snake, once warm, bites the farmer mortally on
the breast. As the farmer dies, he asks the snake "Why would you do
this to me? I found you, warmed you and saved your life!" and the snake
replied "I can't help it, it's my nature."
There's also the one about the mouse carrying the snake across a river
(where the snake indulges in his natural instinct and bites the mouse -
therefore they both drown), but I like this one better. The snake
remains alive. ; )
So, no, callahans isn't for the likes of me. : )
I understand. There are so many times when I look around and wonder
what I'm doing out among the "norms." And don't you think that I have
some real problems with feelings of love, too? I mean, if someone is
nice to me, I get warm fuzzies and start having romantic notions, when
the fact is, they're just being nice! They might genuinely like me,
but it's not like they're actually coming on to me! So, I treat kids
like I think they ought to be treated -- as people with opinions and
feelings that matter, as special treasures to be cherished; naturally
they think that's cool and respond to that kind of thing, and I lose
all perspecitve on what's really happening. Of course, now that I
understand that this is what's happening, I can watch for it and keep
myself in line.

But as for Callahan's -- they wouldn't want you to pretend. They would
accept you exactly as you are, and if that means that you can't feel
the warm fuzzies like they do, then so be it. But they wouldn't kick
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
they'd simply say that you're welcome and you can share -- or not
share -- as much as you like. And you might find that they can
actually appreciate some of your talents -- in Lady Slings the Booze,
they discover that a client of the brothel has a machine that changes
time -- slows it down for that person, and he uses it to have sex with
some of the pros without their knowledge. I don't recall exactly what
they did with him once they caught him, but I think you would
appreciate it.

4s00th
Max Grrl
2006-12-30 20:10:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
They say "life imitates art" - sometimes that's a heinous thing. And in
this case, it CAN be. I fuck around here and make threats - mainly
because that's how and who I am. But I've never written anything that
would be fodder for my kind - nothing that would actually inspire
another like me to act on those urges. Mainly, I leave out the . . .
um . . . descriptive parts - sound, smell, pain. The adjectives and
descriptors that would make it interesting for someone of my ilk and
might inspire them. Even though I would LIKE to indulge, I don't.
Because I know how fucking HARD it is to keep control when presented
with temptations.
In my own personal group - many of us DO write stories of violence and
murder and outside of group have agreed that doing so only makes the
urges harder to resist. So several of my "mates" do a halfass job of it
so they can tell the doc, "Oh yeah, I've been writing them and it's
helping me" when in reality, it makes the urges much more urgent and
attractive. We ask ourselves WHAT would make it better? HOW would we do
it? Would we get caught?
In any addiction (and I'm using that term loosely here) you don't sniff
a lil glue and say it's enough - you don't do just one tiny hit of
crack and say "That's it, I'm done." You want MORE. You want BETTER.
You want it REAL.
And that's my point on that subject.
But really, on that post, my intention was to state that he's not
writing those stories for his kind, to help his kind, he's doing it for
his own self-serving needs. Because he WANTS to.
I can't speeak to Frank's motives. Yes, I know he has an agenda that I
do not condone, and maybe that's his point, but I don't find his
"propaganda" believeable enough to think that'll do it! I mean, I've
had to work with people who suffered CSA, and none of them act like
the people in his stories -- surprise, surprise, surprise!
Okay, at the risk of sounding like a "tight ass" - part of my ish with
Frankie is that he's conditioning himself and others, by writing about
his shit, to think that it might just be normal and okay. There's a
reason why horror movies have such box office receipts - we've become
conditioned to think that violence is okay - that's it's normal.

And by F writing about how (I'm honestly assuming - have TRIED to read
his shit to see IF he was as bad as everyone's saying - but I honestly
got so fucking nauseated after a paragraph or two that I couldn't
finish it without a barf bag standing by) the kids in his stories are
'lovers' and 'consenting' - I'm afraid that other pedos will read the
shit and BELIEVE it. That the chances of finding a child WANTING to
have sex with an old fart is more likely than not.

That'd be much like ME reading stories of willing murder vics (and that
kind of thing IS out there, believe it or not) and thinking that the
average Joe on the street REALLY wants me to kill him.
Post by 4s00th
However, I don't really see pedophilia as an adiction. I'm not driven
to have sex with children -- although I do have a sex drive. I agree
that if I became an offender that I would be more likely to repeat;
after all, if you get away with it once, you're bound to think you can
get away with it twice, right? But as far as feeling compelled -- no,
that's not part of the problem for me, and trust me, I know
compulsions only too well!
I said I was using the term "addiction" loosely, now. I meant more
along the lines of like you said - I got away with it once, I can do it
again (otherwise explain Ted Bundy, Green River, etc) John Wayne Gacy,
in some interview, even compared it to an addiction, saying in essence,
"Since they didn't catch me, I felt I deserved another one, and another
one, and so on." And many SKs even state that they "couldn't resist" or
"felt compelled and could help it." And in many cases, Gacy killed
children, so he was a "bonus" of serial killer AND pedophile (though
not all vics were legally considered children).

Now, I am assuming that YOU'VE never actually molested a child - how do
you know that once you did, you couldn't stop? That you wouldn't feel
compelled??? I HAVE hurt people and it is much like an addiction - it
feels good, and you want to do it again, and again, and again. BECAUSE
it feels so good AND because you already got away with it to the point
where you feel "untouchable."
Post by 4s00th
And I find that some "reading material" helps me -- I get off on it,
and the sexual drive is satisfied so that I take that part out of the
equation. However, I do remember going through a period when I was
reading this shit and saying -- "Geez, is everyone getting some but
me?" But of course, the fallacy there is that there is a difference
between fiction and reality, and once I put that into perspective, it
went away.
Fine, but you're assuming that EVERYONE is like that and has such a
grasp on reality. _I_ have that kind of grasp on reality when it comes
to violent shit, but I know that many of my kind, don't.
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Another problem I have with bo0B is that he doesn't seem to know the
difference between fictional stories and real life. And, I'd also like
to point out that writing down or orally recording fantasies is a
common therapy assigned to pedophiles. It's called Satiation Therapy,
and the idea is that going over and over the fantasies is supposed to
"satiate" the desire. Hey, I didn't make that up!
Not saying you did. We do it too, in our way. But see above.
No, I realize that. But it does sound rather fantastical that
therapists would actually encourage it. The sad part is that a
Colorado man was jailed for doing this -- he was court ordered to
comply with therapy, but when he did comply, the court decided that by
keeping his journal, he was breaking the rules by having KP.
Now that doesn't make sense - not that I approve of KP - but there was
a killer cop (DeBardelben, I think) who did just that. He purposefully
went to a shrink and managed to manipulate the shrink into telling him
to write down his "fantasies" - and he did - only they were his
accounts of REAL murders - but because his shrink TOLD him to write
them down, they were covered by doctor/patient privilege.

True fact. Really, and I mean REALLY pissed the investigators off on
that one. JOURNALS (those black & white marble books?) of TRUE, REAL
murder accounts that were dismissed in court.
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Just for info -- alt.callahans is a newsgroup for fans of Spider
Robinson's great Callahan short stories and novels. They believe that
you accept people as they are -- and that you can only judge them by
their actions, not their thoughts. One of the more popular quotes is
"Pain shared is pain halved; joy shared is joy doubled."
My personal favorite of the novels is "Lady Slings the Booze," which
takes place in bartender Mike Callahan's wife's place -- Lady Sally's
well-known brothel. The puns are truly horrific -- and the title ought
to give you a hint!
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
Yes, bo0B would just love it if you go flame alt.callahans and find
out that they're actually a really great group of people. In fact,
they would really like you, Max -- because they understand that people
want to do things that they know they shouldn't. And they embrace
people who refuse to succumb to temptation.
But to be honest, I wouldn't like them. I'd never go to an NG like that
in a million years. I don't want to be embraced - it means nothing to
me (cause I can't FEEL - so I can't FEEL loved, can't FEEL like I
belong) - it would be more stress in really having to pretend to be
into it or what have you (not sure if I got my point across).
And besides that, around "norms" I always "feel" like a fox in the
henhouse. Too many people are too much temptation. And too many people
reaching out is even more so.
Even with you, at best I can say that I know what you go through -
because I have to use the utmost control in my daily life. And I think
based on that, I can kinda "bond with you." But in RL or even in here,
if you "reach out" or "embrace me" it means absolutely nothing to me.
Not because I don't want it to, but because I'm simply incapable. I get
no more out of someone loving me (or hating me) than the average person
watching bread toast. At the most, all I can do in either case (loving
or hating) is honestly wonder "why?" Feelings don't make sense to me.
: )
The best illustration (or rather, the closest) I've ever found was of
the snake and the farmer in Aesop's Fables. If you don't know it
(though you more than likely do): A farmer is traveling along a road in
the coldest of winter when he spies on the road a frozen snake. Feeling
pity for the creature, he takes the snake and puts it under his
clothing, against his breast to warm it. As they travel, the snake
gradually warms up. The snake, once warm, bites the farmer mortally on
the breast. As the farmer dies, he asks the snake "Why would you do
this to me? I found you, warmed you and saved your life!" and the snake
replied "I can't help it, it's my nature."
There's also the one about the mouse carrying the snake across a river
(where the snake indulges in his natural instinct and bites the mouse -
therefore they both drown), but I like this one better. The snake
remains alive. ; )
So, no, callahans isn't for the likes of me. : )
I understand. There are so many times when I look around and wonder
what I'm doing out among the "norms." And don't you think that I have
some real problems with feelings of love, too? I mean, if someone is
nice to me, I get warm fuzzies and start having romantic notions, when
the fact is, they're just being nice! They might genuinely like me,
but it's not like they're actually coming on to me! So, I treat kids
like I think they ought to be treated -- as people with opinions and
feelings that matter, as special treasures to be cherished; naturally
they think that's cool and respond to that kind of thing, and I lose
all perspecitve on what's really happening. Of course, now that I
understand that this is what's happening, I can watch for it and keep
myself in line.
Well, at the risk of sounding like an utter bitch - your issues with
love? Yeah, I fucking wish _I_ had them. I can't really feel love (or
anything else, for that matter). I walk around looking at peeps like
you and am almost envious. You peeps walk around in light and sun,
enjoying simple pleasures, feeling happy, etc. I kinda walk around in
the dark , , , feeling jackshit.
Post by 4s00th
But as for Callahan's -- they wouldn't want you to pretend. They would
accept you exactly as you are, and if that means that you can't feel
the warm fuzzies like they do, then so be it. But they wouldn't kick
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
they'd simply say that you're welcome and you can share -- or not
share -- as much as you like. And you might find that they can
actually appreciate some of your talents -- in Lady Slings the Booze,
they discover that a client of the brothel has a machine that changes
time -- slows it down for that person, and he uses it to have sex with
some of the pros without their knowledge. I don't recall exactly what
they did with him once they caught him, but I think you would
appreciate it.
Yeah, but because I don't get that warm fuzzy shit, it just wouldn't
interest me, you know? While I feel almost envious of peeps capable of
warm 'n' fuzzy, it's more that it just doesn't make sense. It'd be like
reading the schematics of a VCR . . . And also, I don't really want to
be "accepted." I HAVE to be accepted in my daily life, just to fit in.
But on my own time, I like me just the way I am. I've always even been
a bit apprehensive about therapy - concerned it would change me . . .
I've never wanted to change . . . just learn how to . . . manage
things.

But believe it or not, I can appreciate the sentiment. : )
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
--
Max Grrl
4s00th
2006-12-31 03:40:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
They say "life imitates art" - sometimes that's a heinous thing. And in
this case, it CAN be. I fuck around here and make threats - mainly
because that's how and who I am. But I've never written anything that
would be fodder for my kind - nothing that would actually inspire
another like me to act on those urges. Mainly, I leave out the . . .
um . . . descriptive parts - sound, smell, pain. The adjectives and
descriptors that would make it interesting for someone of my ilk and
might inspire them. Even though I would LIKE to indulge, I don't.
Because I know how fucking HARD it is to keep control when presented
with temptations.
In my own personal group - many of us DO write stories of violence and
murder and outside of group have agreed that doing so only makes the
urges harder to resist. So several of my "mates" do a halfass job of it
so they can tell the doc, "Oh yeah, I've been writing them and it's
helping me" when in reality, it makes the urges much more urgent and
attractive. We ask ourselves WHAT would make it better? HOW would we do
it? Would we get caught?
In any addiction (and I'm using that term loosely here) you don't sniff
a lil glue and say it's enough - you don't do just one tiny hit of
crack and say "That's it, I'm done." You want MORE. You want BETTER.
You want it REAL.
And that's my point on that subject.
But really, on that post, my intention was to state that he's not
writing those stories for his kind, to help his kind, he's doing it for
his own self-serving needs. Because he WANTS to.
I can't speeak to Frank's motives. Yes, I know he has an agenda that I
do not condone, and maybe that's his point, but I don't find his
"propaganda" believeable enough to think that'll do it! I mean, I've
had to work with people who suffered CSA, and none of them act like
the people in his stories -- surprise, surprise, surprise!
Okay, at the risk of sounding like a "tight ass" - part of my ish with
Frankie is that he's conditioning himself and others, by writing about
his shit, to think that it might just be normal and okay. There's a
reason why horror movies have such box office receipts - we've become
conditioned to think that violence is okay - that's it's normal.
And by F writing about how (I'm honestly assuming - have TRIED to read
his shit to see IF he was as bad as everyone's saying - but I honestly
got so fucking nauseated after a paragraph or two that I couldn't
finish it without a barf bag standing by) the kids in his stories are
'lovers' and 'consenting' - I'm afraid that other pedos will read the
shit and BELIEVE it. That the chances of finding a child WANTING to
have sex with an old fart is more likely than not.
That'd be much like ME reading stories of willing murder vics (and that
kind of thing IS out there, believe it or not) and thinking that the
average Joe on the street REALLY wants me to kill him.
Yes, I understand what you mean. And I suddenly think of all the soap
opera bad guys who get hate mail from people thinking they really are
the character they play!

And I really don't suggest you read the stories of Todd Sayre.
According to Todd, one of his many film credits as a child includes
the title role of the short "Barnyard Billy." He says he doesn't
really remember most of the movies he was forced to make, but he
writes because he has to get those feelings out of him. If he didn't
get them out, they would fester and push him into acting them out.
He's actually a pretty good writer, but I can't read much of his stuff
because it's so ... mean. Not all of it, but much of it is filled with
such negative and horrible feelings, rape and so on. Like I said, I
can't read much of it.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
However, I don't really see pedophilia as an adiction. I'm not driven
to have sex with children -- although I do have a sex drive. I agree
that if I became an offender that I would be more likely to repeat;
after all, if you get away with it once, you're bound to think you can
get away with it twice, right? But as far as feeling compelled -- no,
that's not part of the problem for me, and trust me, I know
compulsions only too well!
I said I was using the term "addiction" loosely, now. I meant more
along the lines of like you said - I got away with it once, I can do it
again (otherwise explain Ted Bundy, Green River, etc) John Wayne Gacy,
in some interview, even compared it to an addiction, saying in essence,
"Since they didn't catch me, I felt I deserved another one, and another
one, and so on." And many SKs even state that they "couldn't resist" or
"felt compelled and could help it." And in many cases, Gacy killed
children, so he was a "bonus" of serial killer AND pedophile (though
not all vics were legally considered children).
Now, I am assuming that YOU'VE never actually molested a child - how do
you know that once you did, you couldn't stop? That you wouldn't feel
compelled??? I HAVE hurt people and it is much like an addiction - it
feels good, and you want to do it again, and again, and again. BECAUSE
it feels so good AND because you already got away with it to the point
where you feel "untouchable."
When I was a kid, I did have some consensual relationships -- most of
which never amounted to more than touching and an occasional suck. It
was difficult, because I always wanted more, but had to pretend that
it was just "stuff." But as I got older, I began to see that it wasn't
the same anymore -- that suddenly I had to be responsible for these
kids who trusted me to take care of them. And yes, some of them
actually did come on to me -- and I found ways to sabotage the
situation so that I didn't have to actually refuse. But part of that
was that my kids knew I was safe, that I wouldn't make them do
anything and that I wouldn't get them in trouble for coming on to me.
And the more I realized how the dynamics had changed, the more I
realized that I couldn't betray their trust in me. Eventually I moved
to distance myself from kids -- not so much because I didn't trust
myself, but because it hurt to love and know that they would never
love me the same way. Yes, they loved me, but I was a big brother, a
buddy -- to some, even a father figure.

One of the most common things about sociopaths is how they perceive
right and wrong. For some of us, we accept what's right and wrong
because we're told it's right and wrong; others think about things and
figure out what's right and wrong from the things they see around
them. Is murder always wrong? What about in the middle of a war --
that's murder just the same. But sociopaths see right and wrong as
Right is what I get away with and Wrong is what I get caught and
punished for. By that standard, if you get away with murder, then
there's nothing wrong with it and you might as well do it again. And
then it becomes much more -- the power in being able to terrify, to
take a life, to choose who lives and dies -- and the power of fooling
the authorities. At that point, some of this does become a compulsion,
it's no longer a desire, but something you have to do.

I don't think like that. It's one of the things that separates me from
sexual predators, that and the fact that I have the ability to
understand how others feel. To most predators, victims are just
objects, and who cares how a dart board feels? But me, I understand
how bad it can make people feel. Sometimes, I'm so empathic that I can
almost feel what others feel from being around them and talking to
them. I can understand that some boys wouldn't mind a little fooling
around and would have a grand time, but I also know that many would
feel guilty and wonder if it was something wrong with them and so on.
And I know that most girls would feel that way -- the bad way, because
girls almost always blame themselves and we have such different
standards for girls and boys.

When I was involved with a woman who had the most beautiful 12 year
old son -- and believe me, before we got involved I told her to keep
him away from me, so she used him to drag me in -- a friend of mine
wasn't worried that I would actually molest him, she was more worried
that I would think I had done something bad to him and kill myself.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
And I find that some "reading material" helps me -- I get off on it,
and the sexual drive is satisfied so that I take that part out of the
equation. However, I do remember going through a period when I was
reading this shit and saying -- "Geez, is everyone getting some but
me?" But of course, the fallacy there is that there is a difference
between fiction and reality, and once I put that into perspective, it
went away.
Fine, but you're assuming that EVERYONE is like that and has such a
grasp on reality. _I_ have that kind of grasp on reality when it comes
to violent shit, but I know that many of my kind, don't.
And I think that gets back to the way sociopaths think about right and
wrong.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
No, I realize that. But it does sound rather fantastical that
therapists would actually encourage it. The sad part is that a
Colorado man was jailed for doing this -- he was court ordered to
comply with therapy, but when he did comply, the court decided that by
keeping his journal, he was breaking the rules by having KP.
Now that doesn't make sense - not that I approve of KP - but there was
a killer cop (DeBardelben, I think) who did just that. He purposefully
went to a shrink and managed to manipulate the shrink into telling him
to write down his "fantasies" - and he did - only they were his
accounts of REAL murders - but because his shrink TOLD him to write
them down, they were covered by doctor/patient privilege.
True fact. Really, and I mean REALLY pissed the investigators off on
that one. JOURNALS (those black & white marble books?) of TRUE, REAL
murder accounts that were dismissed in court.
That's an interesting fact because I know for a fact that medical and
psychiatric records can be subpoenaed as evidence in a case. Some
people refuse to believe that I was a psychiatric social worker and
even a Social Services Generic Social Worker (meaning I had to deal
with any kind of case that came in on my shift including Child
Protective Services), but I was. In fact, most doctors and even
counselors are required by law to report any suspicions of abuse that
they may have. They don't need proof, they just need to have suspicion
that a particular child has been abused or neglected, and the law says
they have to report it to the Child Welfare services.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
But to be honest, I wouldn't like them. I'd never go to an NG like that
in a million years. I don't want to be embraced - it means nothing to
me (cause I can't FEEL - so I can't FEEL loved, can't FEEL like I
belong) - it would be more stress in really having to pretend to be
into it or what have you (not sure if I got my point across).
And besides that, around "norms" I always "feel" like a fox in the
henhouse. Too many people are too much temptation. And too many people
reaching out is even more so.
Even with you, at best I can say that I know what you go through -
because I have to use the utmost control in my daily life. And I think
based on that, I can kinda "bond with you." But in RL or even in here,
if you "reach out" or "embrace me" it means absolutely nothing to me.
Not because I don't want it to, but because I'm simply incapable. I get
no more out of someone loving me (or hating me) than the average person
watching bread toast. At the most, all I can do in either case (loving
or hating) is honestly wonder "why?" Feelings don't make sense to me.
: )
The best illustration (or rather, the closest) I've ever found was of
the snake and the farmer in Aesop's Fables. If you don't know it
(though you more than likely do): A farmer is traveling along a road in
the coldest of winter when he spies on the road a frozen snake. Feeling
pity for the creature, he takes the snake and puts it under his
clothing, against his breast to warm it. As they travel, the snake
gradually warms up. The snake, once warm, bites the farmer mortally on
the breast. As the farmer dies, he asks the snake "Why would you do
this to me? I found you, warmed you and saved your life!" and the snake
replied "I can't help it, it's my nature."
There's also the one about the mouse carrying the snake across a river
(where the snake indulges in his natural instinct and bites the mouse -
therefore they both drown), but I like this one better. The snake
remains alive. ; )
So, no, callahans isn't for the likes of me. : )
I understand. There are so many times when I look around and wonder
what I'm doing out among the "norms." And don't you think that I have
some real problems with feelings of love, too? I mean, if someone is
nice to me, I get warm fuzzies and start having romantic notions, when
the fact is, they're just being nice! They might genuinely like me,
but it's not like they're actually coming on to me! So, I treat kids
like I think they ought to be treated -- as people with opinions and
feelings that matter, as special treasures to be cherished; naturally
they think that's cool and respond to that kind of thing, and I lose
all perspecitve on what's really happening. Of course, now that I
understand that this is what's happening, I can watch for it and keep
myself in line.
Well, at the risk of sounding like an utter bitch - your issues with
love? Yeah, I fucking wish _I_ had them. I can't really feel love (or
anything else, for that matter). I walk around looking at peeps like
you and am almost envious. You peeps walk around in light and sun,
enjoying simple pleasures, feeling happy, etc. I kinda walk around in
the dark , , , feeling jackshit.
And at the risk of sounding like an asshole, I wish you rather than me
had my issues, too! No, I don't wish my bourdons on anyone.

I know exactly what you're talking about, that feeling that you're
living in the shadows, on the edge of life, but not really alive. That
feeling that there's a big hole inside you, and you don't even know
what's supposed to be there, that general feeling of emptiness.
Sometimes I'd rather be sad and cry because then I know I'm feeling
something and not just looking into the abyss. And knowing that you'll
never really be satisfied because you don't know what real happiness
is. The sheer weight of knowing that you'll always be alone when it
comes down to it because you can't let anyone in -- because you don't
have anything in you to let them into. We're not so different.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
But as for Callahan's -- they wouldn't want you to pretend. They would
accept you exactly as you are, and if that means that you can't feel
the warm fuzzies like they do, then so be it. But they wouldn't kick
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
they'd simply say that you're welcome and you can share -- or not
share -- as much as you like. And you might find that they can
actually appreciate some of your talents -- in Lady Slings the Booze,
they discover that a client of the brothel has a machine that changes
time -- slows it down for that person, and he uses it to have sex with
some of the pros without their knowledge. I don't recall exactly what
they did with him once they caught him, but I think you would
appreciate it.
Yeah, but because I don't get that warm fuzzy shit, it just wouldn't
interest me, you know? While I feel almost envious of peeps capable of
warm 'n' fuzzy, it's more that it just doesn't make sense. It'd be like
reading the schematics of a VCR . . . And also, I don't really want to
be "accepted." I HAVE to be accepted in my daily life, just to fit in.
But on my own time, I like me just the way I am. I've always even been
a bit apprehensive about therapy - concerned it would change me . . .
I've never wanted to change . . . just learn how to . . . manage
things.
But believe it or not, I can appreciate the sentiment. : )
Yes, I know, much like Groucho Marx, I too would never belong to a
club that would have me as a member!

And I had the same fears about therapy -- I like that I used to write
poems and songs and even stories, and I was always afraid that if I
got into therapy I wouldn't have the feelings that I drew upon to
write. Interestingly enough, it was the Prozac that took most of that
away! I never got deep enough into therapy to do anything real.

But, like you, I won't excuse myself for bad behavior because of any
of that stuff -- because the bottom line is that I do know what's
right and what's wrong, and I will fight every impulse I have to cross
that line.

4s00th
Frank McCoy
2007-01-01 02:40:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
They say "life imitates art" - sometimes that's a heinous thing. And in
this case, it CAN be. I fuck around here and make threats - mainly
because that's how and who I am. But I've never written anything that
would be fodder for my kind - nothing that would actually inspire
another like me to act on those urges. Mainly, I leave out the . . .
um . . . descriptive parts - sound, smell, pain. The adjectives and
descriptors that would make it interesting for someone of my ilk and
might inspire them. Even though I would LIKE to indulge, I don't.
Because I know how fucking HARD it is to keep control when presented
with temptations.
In my own personal group - many of us DO write stories of violence and
murder and outside of group have agreed that doing so only makes the
urges harder to resist. So several of my "mates" do a halfass job of it
so they can tell the doc, "Oh yeah, I've been writing them and it's
helping me" when in reality, it makes the urges much more urgent and
attractive. We ask ourselves WHAT would make it better? HOW would we do
it? Would we get caught?
In any addiction (and I'm using that term loosely here) you don't sniff
a lil glue and say it's enough - you don't do just one tiny hit of
crack and say "That's it, I'm done." You want MORE. You want BETTER.
You want it REAL.
And that's my point on that subject.
But really, on that post, my intention was to state that he's not
writing those stories for his kind, to help his kind, he's doing it for
his own self-serving needs. Because he WANTS to.
I can't speeak to Frank's motives. Yes, I know he has an agenda that I
do not condone, and maybe that's his point, but I don't find his
"propaganda" believeable enough to think that'll do it! I mean, I've
had to work with people who suffered CSA, and none of them act like
the people in his stories -- surprise, surprise, surprise!
Okay, at the risk of sounding like a "tight ass" - part of my ish with
Frankie is that he's conditioning himself and others, by writing about
his shit, to think that it might just be normal and okay. There's a
reason why horror movies have such box office receipts - we've become
conditioned to think that violence is okay - that's it's normal.
And by F writing about how (I'm honestly assuming - have TRIED to read
his shit to see IF he was as bad as everyone's saying - but I honestly
got so fucking nauseated after a paragraph or two that I couldn't
finish it without a barf bag standing by) the kids in his stories are
'lovers' and 'consenting' - I'm afraid that other pedos will read the
shit and BELIEVE it. That the chances of finding a child WANTING to
have sex with an old fart is more likely than not.
That'd be much like ME reading stories of willing murder vics (and that
kind of thing IS out there, believe it or not) and thinking that the
average Joe on the street REALLY wants me to kill him.
Yes, I understand what you mean. And I suddenly think of all the soap
opera bad guys who get hate mail from people thinking they really are
the character they play!
And I really don't suggest you read the stories of Todd Sayre.
According to Todd, one of his many film credits as a child includes
the title role of the short "Barnyard Billy." He says he doesn't
really remember most of the movies he was forced to make, but he
writes because he has to get those feelings out of him. If he didn't
get them out, they would fester and push him into acting them out.
He's actually a pretty good writer, but I can't read much of his stuff
because it's so ... mean. Not all of it, but much of it is filled with
such negative and horrible feelings, rape and so on.
I pretty much bypass all his stories for the same reason.
However, once he wrote a consensual story that was pretty good.
Post by 4s00th
Like I said, I
can't read much of it.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
However, I don't really see pedophilia as an adiction. I'm not driven
to have sex with children -- although I do have a sex drive. I agree
that if I became an offender that I would be more likely to repeat;
after all, if you get away with it once, you're bound to think you can
get away with it twice, right? But as far as feeling compelled -- no,
that's not part of the problem for me, and trust me, I know
compulsions only too well!
I said I was using the term "addiction" loosely, now. I meant more
along the lines of like you said - I got away with it once, I can do it
again (otherwise explain Ted Bundy, Green River, etc) John Wayne Gacy,
in some interview, even compared it to an addiction, saying in essence,
"Since they didn't catch me, I felt I deserved another one, and another
one, and so on." And many SKs even state that they "couldn't resist" or
"felt compelled and could help it." And in many cases, Gacy killed
children, so he was a "bonus" of serial killer AND pedophile (though
not all vics were legally considered children).
Now, I am assuming that YOU'VE never actually molested a child - how do
you know that once you did, you couldn't stop? That you wouldn't feel
compelled??? I HAVE hurt people and it is much like an addiction - it
feels good, and you want to do it again, and again, and again. BECAUSE
it feels so good AND because you already got away with it to the point
where you feel "untouchable."
When I was a kid, I did have some consensual relationships -- most of
which never amounted to more than touching and an occasional suck. It
was difficult, because I always wanted more, but had to pretend that
it was just "stuff." But as I got older, I began to see that it wasn't
the same anymore -- that suddenly I had to be responsible for these
kids who trusted me to take care of them. And yes, some of them
actually did come on to me -- and I found ways to sabotage the
situation so that I didn't have to actually refuse. But part of that
was that my kids knew I was safe, that I wouldn't make them do
anything and that I wouldn't get them in trouble for coming on to me.
And the more I realized how the dynamics had changed, the more I
realized that I couldn't betray their trust in me. Eventually I moved
to distance myself from kids -- not so much because I didn't trust
myself, but because it hurt to love and know that they would never
love me the same way. Yes, they loved me, but I was a big brother, a
buddy -- to some, even a father figure.
One of the most common things about sociopaths is how they perceive
right and wrong. For some of us, we accept what's right and wrong
because we're told it's right and wrong; others think about things and
figure out what's right and wrong from the things they see around
them. Is murder always wrong? What about in the middle of a war --
that's murder just the same. But sociopaths see right and wrong as
Right is what I get away with and Wrong is what I get caught and
punished for. By that standard, if you get away with murder, then
there's nothing wrong with it and you might as well do it again. And
then it becomes much more -- the power in being able to terrify, to
take a life, to choose who lives and dies -- and the power of fooling
the authorities. At that point, some of this does become a compulsion,
it's no longer a desire, but something you have to do.
I don't think like that. It's one of the things that separates me from
sexual predators, that and the fact that I have the ability to
understand how others feel. To most predators, victims are just
objects, and who cares how a dart board feels? But me, I understand
how bad it can make people feel. Sometimes, I'm so empathic that I can
almost feel what others feel from being around them and talking to
them. I can understand that some boys wouldn't mind a little fooling
around and would have a grand time, but I also know that many would
feel guilty and wonder if it was something wrong with them and so on.
And I know that most girls would feel that way -- the bad way, because
girls almost always blame themselves and we have such different
standards for girls and boys.
When I was involved with a woman who had the most beautiful 12 year
old son -- and believe me, before we got involved I told her to keep
him away from me, so she used him to drag me in -- a friend of mine
wasn't worried that I would actually molest him, she was more worried
that I would think I had done something bad to him and kill myself.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
And I find that some "reading material" helps me -- I get off on it,
and the sexual drive is satisfied so that I take that part out of the
equation. However, I do remember going through a period when I was
reading this shit and saying -- "Geez, is everyone getting some but
me?" But of course, the fallacy there is that there is a difference
between fiction and reality, and once I put that into perspective, it
went away.
Fine, but you're assuming that EVERYONE is like that and has such a
grasp on reality. _I_ have that kind of grasp on reality when it comes
to violent shit, but I know that many of my kind, don't.
And I think that gets back to the way sociopaths think about right and
wrong.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
No, I realize that. But it does sound rather fantastical that
therapists would actually encourage it. The sad part is that a
Colorado man was jailed for doing this -- he was court ordered to
comply with therapy, but when he did comply, the court decided that by
keeping his journal, he was breaking the rules by having KP.
Now that doesn't make sense - not that I approve of KP - but there was
a killer cop (DeBardelben, I think) who did just that. He purposefully
went to a shrink and managed to manipulate the shrink into telling him
to write down his "fantasies" - and he did - only they were his
accounts of REAL murders - but because his shrink TOLD him to write
them down, they were covered by doctor/patient privilege.
True fact. Really, and I mean REALLY pissed the investigators off on
that one. JOURNALS (those black & white marble books?) of TRUE, REAL
murder accounts that were dismissed in court.
That's an interesting fact because I know for a fact that medical and
psychiatric records can be subpoenaed as evidence in a case. Some
people refuse to believe that I was a psychiatric social worker and
even a Social Services Generic Social Worker (meaning I had to deal
with any kind of case that came in on my shift including Child
Protective Services), but I was. In fact, most doctors and even
counselors are required by law to report any suspicions of abuse that
they may have. They don't need proof, they just need to have suspicion
that a particular child has been abused or neglected, and the law says
they have to report it to the Child Welfare services.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
But to be honest, I wouldn't like them. I'd never go to an NG like that
in a million years. I don't want to be embraced - it means nothing to
me (cause I can't FEEL - so I can't FEEL loved, can't FEEL like I
belong) - it would be more stress in really having to pretend to be
into it or what have you (not sure if I got my point across).
And besides that, around "norms" I always "feel" like a fox in the
henhouse. Too many people are too much temptation. And too many people
reaching out is even more so.
Even with you, at best I can say that I know what you go through -
because I have to use the utmost control in my daily life. And I think
based on that, I can kinda "bond with you." But in RL or even in here,
if you "reach out" or "embrace me" it means absolutely nothing to me.
Not because I don't want it to, but because I'm simply incapable. I get
no more out of someone loving me (or hating me) than the average person
watching bread toast. At the most, all I can do in either case (loving
or hating) is honestly wonder "why?" Feelings don't make sense to me.
: )
The best illustration (or rather, the closest) I've ever found was of
the snake and the farmer in Aesop's Fables. If you don't know it
(though you more than likely do): A farmer is traveling along a road in
the coldest of winter when he spies on the road a frozen snake. Feeling
pity for the creature, he takes the snake and puts it under his
clothing, against his breast to warm it. As they travel, the snake
gradually warms up. The snake, once warm, bites the farmer mortally on
the breast. As the farmer dies, he asks the snake "Why would you do
this to me? I found you, warmed you and saved your life!" and the snake
replied "I can't help it, it's my nature."
There's also the one about the mouse carrying the snake across a river
(where the snake indulges in his natural instinct and bites the mouse -
therefore they both drown), but I like this one better. The snake
remains alive. ; )
So, no, callahans isn't for the likes of me. : )
I understand. There are so many times when I look around and wonder
what I'm doing out among the "norms." And don't you think that I have
some real problems with feelings of love, too? I mean, if someone is
nice to me, I get warm fuzzies and start having romantic notions, when
the fact is, they're just being nice! They might genuinely like me,
but it's not like they're actually coming on to me! So, I treat kids
like I think they ought to be treated -- as people with opinions and
feelings that matter, as special treasures to be cherished; naturally
they think that's cool and respond to that kind of thing, and I lose
all perspecitve on what's really happening. Of course, now that I
understand that this is what's happening, I can watch for it and keep
myself in line.
Well, at the risk of sounding like an utter bitch - your issues with
love? Yeah, I fucking wish _I_ had them. I can't really feel love (or
anything else, for that matter). I walk around looking at peeps like
you and am almost envious. You peeps walk around in light and sun,
enjoying simple pleasures, feeling happy, etc. I kinda walk around in
the dark , , , feeling jackshit.
And at the risk of sounding like an asshole, I wish you rather than me
had my issues, too! No, I don't wish my bourdons on anyone.
I know exactly what you're talking about, that feeling that you're
living in the shadows, on the edge of life, but not really alive. That
feeling that there's a big hole inside you, and you don't even know
what's supposed to be there, that general feeling of emptiness.
Sometimes I'd rather be sad and cry because then I know I'm feeling
something and not just looking into the abyss. And knowing that you'll
never really be satisfied because you don't know what real happiness
is. The sheer weight of knowing that you'll always be alone when it
comes down to it because you can't let anyone in -- because you don't
have anything in you to let them into. We're not so different.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
But as for Callahan's -- they wouldn't want you to pretend. They would
accept you exactly as you are, and if that means that you can't feel
the warm fuzzies like they do, then so be it. But they wouldn't kick
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
they'd simply say that you're welcome and you can share -- or not
share -- as much as you like. And you might find that they can
actually appreciate some of your talents -- in Lady Slings the Booze,
they discover that a client of the brothel has a machine that changes
time -- slows it down for that person, and he uses it to have sex with
some of the pros without their knowledge. I don't recall exactly what
they did with him once they caught him, but I think you would
appreciate it.
Yeah, but because I don't get that warm fuzzy shit, it just wouldn't
interest me, you know? While I feel almost envious of peeps capable of
warm 'n' fuzzy, it's more that it just doesn't make sense. It'd be like
reading the schematics of a VCR . . . And also, I don't really want to
be "accepted." I HAVE to be accepted in my daily life, just to fit in.
But on my own time, I like me just the way I am. I've always even been
a bit apprehensive about therapy - concerned it would change me . . .
I've never wanted to change . . . just learn how to . . . manage
things.
But believe it or not, I can appreciate the sentiment. : )
Yes, I know, much like Groucho Marx, I too would never belong to a
club that would have me as a member!
And I had the same fears about therapy -- I like that I used to write
poems and songs and even stories, and I was always afraid that if I
got into therapy I wouldn't have the feelings that I drew upon to
write. Interestingly enough, it was the Prozac that took most of that
away! I never got deep enough into therapy to do anything real.
But, like you, I won't excuse myself for bad behavior because of any
of that stuff -- because the bottom line is that I do know what's
right and what's wrong, and I will fight every impulse I have to cross
that line.
4s00th
--
_____
/ ' / â„¢
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-31 11:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
They say "life imitates art" - sometimes that's a heinous thing. And in
this case, it CAN be. I fuck around here and make threats - mainly
because that's how and who I am. But I've never written anything that
would be fodder for my kind - nothing that would actually inspire
another like me to act on those urges. Mainly, I leave out the . . .
um . . . descriptive parts - sound, smell, pain. The adjectives and
descriptors that would make it interesting for someone of my ilk and
might inspire them. Even though I would LIKE to indulge, I don't.
Because I know how fucking HARD it is to keep control when presented
with temptations.
In my own personal group - many of us DO write stories of violence and
murder and outside of group have agreed that doing so only makes the
urges harder to resist. So several of my "mates" do a halfass job of it
so they can tell the doc, "Oh yeah, I've been writing them and it's
helping me" when in reality, it makes the urges much more urgent and
attractive. We ask ourselves WHAT would make it better? HOW would we do
it? Would we get caught?
In any addiction (and I'm using that term loosely here) you don't sniff
a lil glue and say it's enough - you don't do just one tiny hit of
crack and say "That's it, I'm done." You want MORE. You want BETTER.
You want it REAL.
And that's my point on that subject.
But really, on that post, my intention was to state that he's not
writing those stories for his kind, to help his kind, he's doing it for
his own self-serving needs. Because he WANTS to.
I can't speeak to Frank's motives. Yes, I know he has an agenda that I
do not condone, and maybe that's his point, but I don't find his
"propaganda" believeable enough to think that'll do it! I mean, I've
had to work with people who suffered CSA, and none of them act like
the people in his stories -- surprise, surprise, surprise!
Okay, at the risk of sounding like a "tight ass" - part of my ish with
Frankie is that he's conditioning himself and others, by writing about
his shit, to think that it might just be normal and okay. There's a
reason why horror movies have such box office receipts - we've become
conditioned to think that violence is okay - that's it's normal.
And by F writing about how (I'm honestly assuming - have TRIED to read
his shit to see IF he was as bad as everyone's saying - but I honestly
got so fucking nauseated after a paragraph or two that I couldn't
finish it without a barf bag standing by) the kids in his stories are
'lovers' and 'consenting' - I'm afraid that other pedos will read the
shit and BELIEVE it. That the chances of finding a child WANTING to
have sex with an old fart is more likely than not.
That'd be much like ME reading stories of willing murder vics (and that
kind of thing IS out there, believe it or not) and thinking that the
average Joe on the street REALLY wants me to kill him.
Post by 4s00th
However, I don't really see pedophilia as an adiction. I'm not driven
to have sex with children -- although I do have a sex drive. I agree
that if I became an offender that I would be more likely to repeat;
after all, if you get away with it once, you're bound to think you can
get away with it twice, right? But as far as feeling compelled -- no,
that's not part of the problem for me, and trust me, I know
compulsions only too well!
I said I was using the term "addiction" loosely, now. I meant more
along the lines of like you said - I got away with it once, I can do it
again (otherwise explain Ted Bundy, Green River, etc) John Wayne Gacy,
in some interview, even compared it to an addiction, saying in essence,
"Since they didn't catch me, I felt I deserved another one, and another
one, and so on." And many SKs even state that they "couldn't resist" or
"felt compelled and could help it." And in many cases, Gacy killed
children, so he was a "bonus" of serial killer AND pedophile (though
not all vics were legally considered children).
Now, I am assuming that YOU'VE never actually molested a child - how do
you know that once you did, you couldn't stop? That you wouldn't feel
compelled??? I HAVE hurt people and it is much like an addiction - it
feels good, and you want to do it again, and again, and again. BECAUSE
it feels so good AND because you already got away with it to the point
where you feel "untouchable."
Post by 4s00th
And I find that some "reading material" helps me -- I get off on it,
and the sexual drive is satisfied so that I take that part out of the
equation. However, I do remember going through a period when I was
reading this shit and saying -- "Geez, is everyone getting some but
me?" But of course, the fallacy there is that there is a difference
between fiction and reality, and once I put that into perspective, it
went away.
Fine, but you're assuming that EVERYONE is like that and has such a
grasp on reality. _I_ have that kind of grasp on reality when it comes
to violent shit, but I know that many of my kind, don't.
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Another problem I have with bo0B is that he doesn't seem to know the
difference between fictional stories and real life. And, I'd also like
to point out that writing down or orally recording fantasies is a
common therapy assigned to pedophiles. It's called Satiation Therapy,
and the idea is that going over and over the fantasies is supposed to
"satiate" the desire. Hey, I didn't make that up!
Not saying you did. We do it too, in our way. But see above.
No, I realize that. But it does sound rather fantastical that
therapists would actually encourage it. The sad part is that a
Colorado man was jailed for doing this -- he was court ordered to
comply with therapy, but when he did comply, the court decided that by
keeping his journal, he was breaking the rules by having KP.
Now that doesn't make sense - not that I approve of KP - but there was
a killer cop (DeBardelben, I think) who did just that. He purposefully
went to a shrink and managed to manipulate the shrink into telling him
to write down his "fantasies" - and he did - only they were his
accounts of REAL murders - but because his shrink TOLD him to write
them down, they were covered by doctor/patient privilege.
True fact. Really, and I mean REALLY pissed the investigators off on
that one. JOURNALS (those black & white marble books?) of TRUE, REAL
murder accounts that were dismissed in court.
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Just for info -- alt.callahans is a newsgroup for fans of Spider
Robinson's great Callahan short stories and novels. They believe that
you accept people as they are -- and that you can only judge them by
their actions, not their thoughts. One of the more popular quotes is
"Pain shared is pain halved; joy shared is joy doubled."
My personal favorite of the novels is "Lady Slings the Booze," which
takes place in bartender Mike Callahan's wife's place -- Lady Sally's
well-known brothel. The puns are truly horrific -- and the title ought
to give you a hint!
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
Yes, bo0B would just love it if you go flame alt.callahans and find
out that they're actually a really great group of people. In fact,
they would really like you, Max -- because they understand that people
want to do things that they know they shouldn't. And they embrace
people who refuse to succumb to temptation.
But to be honest, I wouldn't like them. I'd never go to an NG like that
in a million years. I don't want to be embraced - it means nothing to
me (cause I can't FEEL - so I can't FEEL loved, can't FEEL like I
belong) - it would be more stress in really having to pretend to be
into it or what have you (not sure if I got my point across).
And besides that, around "norms" I always "feel" like a fox in the
henhouse. Too many people are too much temptation. And too many people
reaching out is even more so.
Even with you, at best I can say that I know what you go through -
because I have to use the utmost control in my daily life. And I think
based on that, I can kinda "bond with you." But in RL or even in here,
if you "reach out" or "embrace me" it means absolutely nothing to me.
Not because I don't want it to, but because I'm simply incapable. I get
no more out of someone loving me (or hating me) than the average person
watching bread toast. At the most, all I can do in either case (loving
or hating) is honestly wonder "why?" Feelings don't make sense to me.
: )
The best illustration (or rather, the closest) I've ever found was of
the snake and the farmer in Aesop's Fables. If you don't know it
(though you more than likely do): A farmer is traveling along a road in
the coldest of winter when he spies on the road a frozen snake. Feeling
pity for the creature, he takes the snake and puts it under his
clothing, against his breast to warm it. As they travel, the snake
gradually warms up. The snake, once warm, bites the farmer mortally on
the breast. As the farmer dies, he asks the snake "Why would you do
this to me? I found you, warmed you and saved your life!" and the snake
replied "I can't help it, it's my nature."
There's also the one about the mouse carrying the snake across a river
(where the snake indulges in his natural instinct and bites the mouse -
therefore they both drown), but I like this one better. The snake
remains alive. ; )
So, no, callahans isn't for the likes of me. : )
I understand. There are so many times when I look around and wonder
what I'm doing out among the "norms." And don't you think that I have
some real problems with feelings of love, too? I mean, if someone is
nice to me, I get warm fuzzies and start having romantic notions, when
the fact is, they're just being nice! They might genuinely like me,
but it's not like they're actually coming on to me! So, I treat kids
like I think they ought to be treated -- as people with opinions and
feelings that matter, as special treasures to be cherished; naturally
they think that's cool and respond to that kind of thing, and I lose
all perspecitve on what's really happening. Of course, now that I
understand that this is what's happening, I can watch for it and keep
myself in line.
Well, at the risk of sounding like an utter bitch - your issues with
love? Yeah, I fucking wish _I_ had them. I can't really feel love (or
anything else, for that matter). I walk around looking at peeps like
you and am almost envious. You peeps walk around in light and sun,
enjoying simple pleasures, feeling happy, etc. I kinda walk around in
the dark , , , feeling jackshit.
Post by 4s00th
But as for Callahan's -- they wouldn't want you to pretend. They would
accept you exactly as you are, and if that means that you can't feel
the warm fuzzies like they do, then so be it. But they wouldn't kick
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
they'd simply say that you're welcome and you can share -- or not
share -- as much as you like. And you might find that they can
actually appreciate some of your talents -- in Lady Slings the Booze,
they discover that a client of the brothel has a machine that changes
time -- slows it down for that person, and he uses it to have sex with
some of the pros without their knowledge. I don't recall exactly what
they did with him once they caught him, but I think you would
appreciate it.
Yeah, but because I don't get that warm fuzzy shit, it just wouldn't
interest me, you know? While I feel almost envious of peeps capable of
warm 'n' fuzzy, it's more that it just doesn't make sense. It'd be like
reading the schematics of a VCR . . . And also, I don't really want to
be "accepted." I HAVE to be accepted in my daily life, just to fit in.
But on my own time, I like me just the way I am. I've always even been
a bit apprehensive about therapy - concerned it would change me . . .
I've never wanted to change . . . just learn how to . . . manage
things.
But believe it or not, I can appreciate the sentiment. : )
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
--
Max Grrl
Not to worry, we can distinguish fantasy from RL. Thanks for your
concern though.
Frank McCoy
2006-12-31 02:25:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
They say "life imitates art" - sometimes that's a heinous thing. And in
this case, it CAN be. I fuck around here and make threats - mainly
because that's how and who I am. But I've never written anything that
would be fodder for my kind - nothing that would actually inspire
another like me to act on those urges. Mainly, I leave out the . . .
um . . . descriptive parts - sound, smell, pain. The adjectives and
descriptors that would make it interesting for someone of my ilk and
might inspire them. Even though I would LIKE to indulge, I don't.
Because I know how fucking HARD it is to keep control when presented
with temptations.
In my own personal group - many of us DO write stories of violence and
murder and outside of group have agreed that doing so only makes the
urges harder to resist. So several of my "mates" do a halfass job of it
so they can tell the doc, "Oh yeah, I've been writing them and it's
helping me" when in reality, it makes the urges much more urgent and
attractive. We ask ourselves WHAT would make it better? HOW would we do
it? Would we get caught?
In any addiction (and I'm using that term loosely here) you don't sniff
a lil glue and say it's enough - you don't do just one tiny hit of
crack and say "That's it, I'm done." You want MORE. You want BETTER.
You want it REAL.
And that's my point on that subject.
But really, on that post, my intention was to state that he's not
writing those stories for his kind, to help his kind, he's doing it for
his own self-serving needs. Because he WANTS to.
I can't speeak to Frank's motives. Yes, I know he has an agenda that I
do not condone, and maybe that's his point, but I don't find his
"propaganda" believeable enough to think that'll do it! I mean, I've
had to work with people who suffered CSA, and none of them act like
the people in his stories -- surprise, surprise, surprise!
Well, that's the idea!
If people acted like the subjects of my stories instead of the horrors
of "Real Life", then there wouldn't *be* CSA!

Or at least that's my theory, proposition, and yes, propaganda.

If you *love* somebody, you don't hurt them; because that would be like
hurting yourself. The people who hurt others, quite obviously don't
love them. And *that* is what I'm pushing for: Love.

Especially when having sex.

I try to point out that the payback for love is *much* greater,
especially in sex, than you ever get by hurting or even just taking but
never giving.

Sadly, all too many people keep missing the point. ;-{
Post by 4s00th
However, I don't really see pedophilia as an adiction. I'm not driven
to have sex with children -- although I do have a sex drive. I agree
that if I became an offender that I would be more likely to repeat;
after all, if you get away with it once, you're bound to think you can
get away with it twice, right? But as far as feeling compelled -- no,
that's not part of the problem for me, and trust me, I know
compulsions only too well!
And I find that some "reading material" helps me -- I get off on it,
and the sexual drive is satisfied so that I take that part out of the
equation. However, I do remember going through a period when I was
reading this shit and saying -- "Geez, is everyone getting some but
me?" But of course, the fallacy there is that there is a difference
between fiction and reality, and once I put that into perspective, it
went away.
Well, at one time in my life, *without reading stories* I still had the
rather naive idea that everybody out there was "getting some" but me.
Sadly, it wasn't true. ;-{

There are lots of poor slobs out there, even women, who ain't getting
any when in-fact they deserve to get a lot.
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Another problem I have with bo0B is that he doesn't seem to know the
difference between fictional stories and real life. And, I'd also like
to point out that writing down or orally recording fantasies is a
common therapy assigned to pedophiles. It's called Satiation Therapy,
and the idea is that going over and over the fantasies is supposed to
"satiate" the desire. Hey, I didn't make that up!
Not saying you did. We do it too, in our way. But see above.
No, I realize that. But it does sound rather fantastical that
therapists would actually encourage it. The sad part is that a
Colorado man was jailed for doing this -- he was court ordered to
comply with therapy, but when he did comply, the court decided that by
keeping his journal, he was breaking the rules by having KP.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Just for info -- alt.callahans is a newsgroup for fans of Spider
Robinson's great Callahan short stories and novels. They believe that
you accept people as they are -- and that you can only judge them by
their actions, not their thoughts. One of the more popular quotes is
"Pain shared is pain halved; joy shared is joy doubled."
My personal favorite of the novels is "Lady Slings the Booze," which
takes place in bartender Mike Callahan's wife's place -- Lady Sally's
well-known brothel. The puns are truly horrific -- and the title ought
to give you a hint!
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
Yes, bo0B would just love it if you go flame alt.callahans and find
out that they're actually a really great group of people. In fact,
they would really like you, Max -- because they understand that people
want to do things that they know they shouldn't. And they embrace
people who refuse to succumb to temptation.
But to be honest, I wouldn't like them. I'd never go to an NG like that
in a million years. I don't want to be embraced - it means nothing to
me (cause I can't FEEL - so I can't FEEL loved, can't FEEL like I
belong) - it would be more stress in really having to pretend to be
into it or what have you (not sure if I got my point across).
And besides that, around "norms" I always "feel" like a fox in the
henhouse. Too many people are too much temptation. And too many people
reaching out is even more so.
Even with you, at best I can say that I know what you go through -
because I have to use the utmost control in my daily life. And I think
based on that, I can kinda "bond with you." But in RL or even in here,
if you "reach out" or "embrace me" it means absolutely nothing to me.
Not because I don't want it to, but because I'm simply incapable. I get
no more out of someone loving me (or hating me) than the average person
watching bread toast. At the most, all I can do in either case (loving
or hating) is honestly wonder "why?" Feelings don't make sense to me.
: )
The best illustration (or rather, the closest) I've ever found was of
the snake and the farmer in Aesop's Fables. If you don't know it
(though you more than likely do): A farmer is traveling along a road in
the coldest of winter when he spies on the road a frozen snake. Feeling
pity for the creature, he takes the snake and puts it under his
clothing, against his breast to warm it. As they travel, the snake
gradually warms up. The snake, once warm, bites the farmer mortally on
the breast. As the farmer dies, he asks the snake "Why would you do
this to me? I found you, warmed you and saved your life!" and the snake
replied "I can't help it, it's my nature."
There's also the one about the mouse carrying the snake across a river
(where the snake indulges in his natural instinct and bites the mouse -
therefore they both drown), but I like this one better. The snake
remains alive. ; )
So, no, callahans isn't for the likes of me. : )
I understand. There are so many times when I look around and wonder
what I'm doing out among the "norms." And don't you think that I have
some real problems with feelings of love, too? I mean, if someone is
nice to me, I get warm fuzzies and start having romantic notions, when
the fact is, they're just being nice! They might genuinely like me,
but it's not like they're actually coming on to me! So, I treat kids
like I think they ought to be treated -- as people with opinions and
feelings that matter, as special treasures to be cherished; naturally
they think that's cool and respond to that kind of thing, and I lose
all perspecitve on what's really happening. Of course, now that I
understand that this is what's happening, I can watch for it and keep
myself in line.
But as for Callahan's -- they wouldn't want you to pretend. They would
accept you exactly as you are, and if that means that you can't feel
the warm fuzzies like they do, then so be it. But they wouldn't kick
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
they'd simply say that you're welcome and you can share -- or not
share -- as much as you like. And you might find that they can
actually appreciate some of your talents -- in Lady Slings the Booze,
they discover that a client of the brothel has a machine that changes
time -- slows it down for that person, and he uses it to have sex with
some of the pros without their knowledge. I don't recall exactly what
they did with him once they caught him, but I think you would
appreciate it.
They killed him *fast* ... a laser through the brain.
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
--
_____
/ ' / â„¢
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
2006-12-31 06:58:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
They say "life imitates art" - sometimes that's a heinous thing. And in
this case, it CAN be. I fuck around here and make threats - mainly
because that's how and who I am. But I've never written anything that
would be fodder for my kind - nothing that would actually inspire
another like me to act on those urges. Mainly, I leave out the . . .
um . . . descriptive parts - sound, smell, pain. The adjectives and
descriptors that would make it interesting for someone of my ilk and
might inspire them. Even though I would LIKE to indulge, I don't.
Because I know how fucking HARD it is to keep control when presented
with temptations.
In my own personal group - many of us DO write stories of violence and
murder and outside of group have agreed that doing so only makes the
urges harder to resist. So several of my "mates" do a halfass job of it
so they can tell the doc, "Oh yeah, I've been writing them and it's
helping me" when in reality, it makes the urges much more urgent and
attractive. We ask ourselves WHAT would make it better? HOW would we do
it? Would we get caught?
In any addiction (and I'm using that term loosely here) you don't sniff
a lil glue and say it's enough - you don't do just one tiny hit of
crack and say "That's it, I'm done." You want MORE. You want BETTER.
You want it REAL.
And that's my point on that subject.
But really, on that post, my intention was to state that he's not
writing those stories for his kind, to help his kind, he's doing it for
his own self-serving needs. Because he WANTS to.
I can't speeak to Frank's motives. Yes, I know he has an agenda that I
do not condone, and maybe that's his point, but I don't find his
"propaganda" believeable enough to think that'll do it! I mean, I've
had to work with people who suffered CSA, and none of them act like
the people in his stories -- surprise, surprise, surprise!
Well, that's the idea!
If people acted like the subjects of my stories instead of the horrors
of "Real Life", then there wouldn't *be* CSA!
Or at least that's my theory, proposition, and yes, propaganda.
If you *love* somebody, you don't hurt them; because that would be like
hurting yourself. The people who hurt others, quite obviously don't
love them. And *that* is what I'm pushing for: Love.
Especially when having sex.
I try to point out that the payback for love is *much* greater,
especially in sex, than you ever get by hurting or even just taking but
never giving.
Sadly, all too many people keep missing the point. ;-{
Post by 4s00th
However, I don't really see pedophilia as an adiction. I'm not driven
to have sex with children -- although I do have a sex drive. I agree
that if I became an offender that I would be more likely to repeat;
after all, if you get away with it once, you're bound to think you can
get away with it twice, right? But as far as feeling compelled -- no,
that's not part of the problem for me, and trust me, I know
compulsions only too well!
And I find that some "reading material" helps me -- I get off on it,
and the sexual drive is satisfied so that I take that part out of the
equation. However, I do remember going through a period when I was
reading this shit and saying -- "Geez, is everyone getting some but
me?" But of course, the fallacy there is that there is a difference
between fiction and reality, and once I put that into perspective, it
went away.
Well, at one time in my life, *without reading stories* I still had the
rather naive idea that everybody out there was "getting some" but me.
Sadly, it wasn't true. ;-{
There are lots of poor slobs out there, even women, who ain't getting
any when in-fact they deserve to get a lot.
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex
crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Another problem I have with bo0B is that he doesn't seem to know the
difference between fictional stories and real life. And, I'd also like
to point out that writing down or orally recording fantasies is a
common therapy assigned to pedophiles. It's called Satiation Therapy,
and the idea is that going over and over the fantasies is supposed to
"satiate" the desire. Hey, I didn't make that up!
Not saying you did. We do it too, in our way. But see above.
No, I realize that. But it does sound rather fantastical that
therapists would actually encourage it. The sad part is that a
Colorado man was jailed for doing this -- he was court ordered to
comply with therapy, but when he did comply, the court decided that by
keeping his journal, he was breaking the rules by having KP.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Just for info -- alt.callahans is a newsgroup for fans of Spider
Robinson's great Callahan short stories and novels. They believe that
you accept people as they are -- and that you can only judge them by
their actions, not their thoughts. One of the more popular quotes is
"Pain shared is pain halved; joy shared is joy doubled."
My personal favorite of the novels is "Lady Slings the Booze," which
takes place in bartender Mike Callahan's wife's place -- Lady Sally's
well-known brothel. The puns are truly horrific -- and the title ought
to give you a hint!
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
Yes, bo0B would just love it if you go flame alt.callahans and find
out that they're actually a really great group of people. In fact,
they would really like you, Max -- because they understand that people
want to do things that they know they shouldn't. And they embrace
people who refuse to succumb to temptation.
But to be honest, I wouldn't like them. I'd never go to an NG like that
in a million years. I don't want to be embraced - it means nothing to
me (cause I can't FEEL - so I can't FEEL loved, can't FEEL like I
belong) - it would be more stress in really having to pretend to be
into it or what have you (not sure if I got my point across).
And besides that, around "norms" I always "feel" like a fox in the
henhouse. Too many people are too much temptation. And too many people
reaching out is even more so.
Even with you, at best I can say that I know what you go through -
because I have to use the utmost control in my daily life. And I think
based on that, I can kinda "bond with you." But in RL or even in here,
if you "reach out" or "embrace me" it means absolutely nothing to me.
Not because I don't want it to, but because I'm simply incapable. I get
no more out of someone loving me (or hating me) than the average person
watching bread toast. At the most, all I can do in either case (loving
or hating) is honestly wonder "why?" Feelings don't make sense to me.
: )
The best illustration (or rather, the closest) I've ever found was of
the snake and the farmer in Aesop's Fables. If you don't know it
(though you more than likely do): A farmer is traveling along a road in
the coldest of winter when he spies on the road a frozen snake. Feeling
pity for the creature, he takes the snake and puts it under his
clothing, against his breast to warm it. As they travel, the snake
gradually warms up. The snake, once warm, bites the farmer mortally on
the breast. As the farmer dies, he asks the snake "Why would you do
this to me? I found you, warmed you and saved your life!" and the snake
replied "I can't help it, it's my nature."
There's also the one about the mouse carrying the snake across a river
(where the snake indulges in his natural instinct and bites the mouse -
therefore they both drown), but I like this one better. The snake
remains alive. ; )
So, no, callahans isn't for the likes of me. : )
I understand. There are so many times when I look around and wonder
what I'm doing out among the "norms." And don't you think that I have
some real problems with feelings of love, too? I mean, if someone is
nice to me, I get warm fuzzies and start having romantic notions, when
the fact is, they're just being nice! They might genuinely like me,
but it's not like they're actually coming on to me! So, I treat kids
like I think they ought to be treated -- as people with opinions and
feelings that matter, as special treasures to be cherished; naturally
they think that's cool and respond to that kind of thing, and I lose
all perspecitve on what's really happening. Of course, now that I
understand that this is what's happening, I can watch for it and keep
myself in line.
But as for Callahan's -- they wouldn't want you to pretend. They would
accept you exactly as you are,
Don't we know...LOL
pedophiles, S&M perverts...


and if that means that you can't feel
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by 4s00th
the warm fuzzies like they do, then so be it.
I'll pass on your "fuzzies" freak..



But they wouldn't kick
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by 4s00th
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
Who's whispering behind your's? We call you a deviant to your face.


UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.


You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank! Good work on living
up
to this award in the most exhaustive way possible...and taking it like
a
good sport when you realized that you'd been had. I'd advise you to
stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am,
but I
have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-31 13:13:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
But as for Callahan's -- they wouldn't want you to pretend. They would
accept you exactly as you are,
Don't we know...LOL
pedophiles, S&M perverts...
and if that means that you can't feel
Post by 4s00th
the warm fuzzies like they do, then so be it.
I'll pass on your "fuzzies" freak..
But they wouldn't kick
Post by 4s00th
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
Who's whispering behind your's? We call you a deviant to your face.
He exercises self restraint, and you call it pretense. If he doesn't
exercise self restraint-- your not happy with that either.
If he writes children's books you'll say he just using it for cover.
If he goes to the same church that you do. You'll say he's there to
meet children.

So how does a person get on your good side? If he quit writing, you
would think he's up to something else. Once a person screws up--
that's it. There's nothing that'll make it right short of Jesus Christ
coming down, and telling you to knock it off.

What's a person do to get on your good side?
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-31 13:29:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
But as for Callahan's -- they wouldn't want you to pretend. They would
accept you exactly as you are,
Don't we know...LOL
pedophiles, S&M perverts...
and if that means that you can't feel
Post by 4s00th
the warm fuzzies like they do, then so be it.
I'll pass on your "fuzzies" freak..
But they wouldn't kick
Post by 4s00th
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
Who's whispering behind your's? We call you a deviant to your face.
No your not. Nobody can see who you are.
There's no way way you'd do this face to face. You're not hero. You're
not the brave person you imagine yourself to be.
cut2open

He exercises self restraint, and you call it pretense. If he doesn't
exercise self restraint-- your not happy with that either.
If he writes children's books you'll say he just using it for cover.
If he goes to the same church that you do. You'll say he's there to
meet children.

So how does a person get on your good side? If he quit writing, you
would think he's up to something else. Once a person screws up--
that's it. There's nothing that'll make it right short of Jesus Christ
coming down, and telling you to knock it off.

What's a person do to get on your good side?
cut2open
4s00th
2006-12-31 21:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by 4s00th
But they wouldn't kick
Post by 4s00th
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
Who's whispering behind your's? We call you a deviant to your face.
No your not. Nobody can see who you are.
There's no way way you'd do this face to face. You're not hero. You're
not the brave person you imagine yourself to be.
cut2open
He exercises self restraint, and you call it pretense. If he doesn't
exercise self restraint-- your not happy with that either.
If he writes children's books you'll say he just using it for cover.
If he goes to the same church that you do. You'll say he's there to
meet children.
So how does a person get on your good side? If he quit writing, you
would think he's up to something else. Once a person screws up--
that's it. There's nothing that'll make it right short of Jesus Christ
coming down, and telling you to knock it off.
What's a person do to get on your good side?
cut2open
Your first mistake is assuming that he has a good side, or that anyone
would want to be on what he considers a "good side."

It's funny how everyone who disagrees with him slightly or criticizes
him in any way is either a moron, a pedo, a cunt or any number of
ethnic slurs he chooses to throw out -- and then deny that he said. No
one is capable of getting on his "good" side -- well, not if they have
any standards of decency or morals, and certainly not if they uphold
the US Constitution and its ammendments and the basic rights upon
which our Western Civilization is supposedly built.

4s00th
Richard Fallstrom
2006-12-31 21:19:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by 4s00th
But they wouldn't kick
Post by 4s00th
you out and call you weird and whisper about you behind your back --
Who's whispering behind your's? We call you a deviant to your face.
No your not. Nobody can see who you are.
There's no way way you'd do this face to face. You're not hero. You're
not the brave person you imagine yourself to be.
cut2open
He exercises self restraint, and you call it pretense. If he doesn't
exercise self restraint-- your not happy with that either.
If he writes children's books you'll say he just using it for cover.
If he goes to the same church that you do. You'll say he's there to
meet children.
So how does a person get on your good side? If he quit writing, you
would think he's up to something else. Once a person screws up--
that's it. There's nothing that'll make it right short of Jesus Christ
coming down, and telling you to knock it off.
What's a person do to get on your good side?
cut2open
Your first mistake is assuming that he has a good side, or that anyone
would want to be on what he considers a "good side."
It's funny how everyone who disagrees with him slightly or criticizes
him in any way is either a moron, a pedo, a cunt or any number of
ethnic slurs he chooses to throw out -- and then deny that he said. No
one is capable of getting on his "good" side -- well, not if they have
any standards of decency or morals, and certainly not if they uphold
the US Constitution and its ammendments and the basic rights upon
which our Western Civilization is supposedly built.
4s00th
Personally,

I don't think b&c would be gutsy enough to meet someone in real life
and spout their diatribes to the person's face.

Rick (who is sometimes a GentleRF and sometimes is not (like now))
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-31 12:10:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
Should we stop making matches because there are pyromaniacs?
cut2open
Max Grrl
2007-01-01 00:45:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
Should we stop making matches because there are pyromaniacs?
Um . . . should we stop making snuff films because some people are
murderers?
Oh wait . . . snuff films are illegal.
Oh, wait again!! So is child pr0n.
Post by b***@yahoo.com
cut2open
Really, now you're just being a tease.
--
Max Grrl
Baal
2007-01-01 22:54:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
Should we stop making matches because there are pyromaniacs?
cut2open
I'm not sure what it's like for MaxGrrl's condition, but in the case of
pedophilia, in many jurisdictions, there are mandatory reporting laws in place.

Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing with his sexual
attraction towards children and accordingly seeks professional help. Let's
assume that Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his background
that would indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins seeing a
therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required by
law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported,
Joe's name will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.

Just to give you an idea of what can happen, consider the case of childrens'
entertainer Eric Nagler.

A number of years ago, Mr. Nagler was accused of fondling the breast of a 12-year-
old girl. Almost immediately, after news of this accusation broke, his television
and other appearances were cancelled, leaving him without work (or income).

Describing what happened to him on CBC Radio, he related how he received a
telephone call from the Childrens' Aid Society informing him that his name was
being put on a register of sex offenders. Now, remember at this point, he still
had not been convicted (he was never convicted of anything), let alone having a
chance to offer up his side of the story. The worker on the other end of the
phone told him that he was being informed 'as a courtesy.'

He was further informed that he could have his name removed from the list, if
he were to appear before a panel and *show cause* as to why his name should be
removed. He asked the worker with no small amount of incredulity,
'You mean ny name can be put on this list with no hearing, no conviction,
nothing at all but a complaint, but to get it removed I have to show cause as
to why it should be removed?' The worker answered, 'That's right.' and hung up.

That shows the current state of hysteria that we find ourselves in--to be accused
is to be guilty; there is no such thing as presumption of innocence, only a
presumption of unproven guilt.

In such an atmosphere, why would anyone in their right mind voluntarily present
themselves for 'professional help'?


Baal
Retired Lecturer, Encryption and Data Security, Pedo U, Usenet Campus

"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD
Positive Sex Fiend
2007-01-01 23:07:59 UTC
Permalink
Hash: SHA512
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
Should we stop making matches because there are pyromaniacs?
cut2open
I'm not sure what it's like for MaxGrrl's condition, but in the case of
pedophilia, in many jurisdictions, there are mandatory reporting laws in place.
Pedophilia is not illegal. There are no "mandatory reporting laws" for
pedophilia. There are only mandatory reporting laws for child abuse. Child
abuse requires an ACT. If you molest a child THAT is child abuse. If you
lust after children THAT is not child abuse. The thought police haven't
gotten that far, yes.
Richard Fallstrom
2007-01-02 00:20:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Positive Sex Fiend
Hash: SHA512
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
Should we stop making matches because there are pyromaniacs?
cut2open
I'm not sure what it's like for MaxGrrl's condition, but in the case of
pedophilia, in many jurisdictions, there are mandatory reporting laws in place.
Pedophilia is not illegal. There are no "mandatory reporting laws" for
pedophilia. There are only mandatory reporting laws for child abuse. Child
abuse requires an ACT. If you molest a child THAT is child abuse. If you
lust after children THAT is not child abuse. The thought police haven't
gotten that far, yes.
Don't bet on it. The thought police in Washington State are there
already. It doesn't matter if its a kid or a cow, they nail you without
the benefit of a trial. The allegation is enough to ruin your life
forever here.

Rick (who is sometimes a GentleRF, and sometimes is not)
4s00th
2007-01-02 07:17:52 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
Should we stop making matches because there are pyromaniacs?
cut2open
I'm not sure what it's like for MaxGrrl's condition, but in the case of
pedophilia, in many jurisdictions, there are mandatory reporting laws in place.
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing with his sexual
attraction towards children and accordingly seeks professional help. Let's
assume that Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his background
that would indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins seeing a
therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required by
law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported,
Joe's name will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know of any law in
the US, or at least the state I worked in, that required anyone to
report anything about someone's feelings unless they started to affect
behavior. Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical Doctors
including Shrinks and Teachers are required by law to report any
suspicions of child abuse or neglect to Social Services, the sole
authority for investigating complaints of abuse and neglect, though we
used to ask the State Troopers or Countie Mounties for an assist in
cases of excessive violence or possible sexual abuse.

Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should do nothing
more than cause a notation in your chart. Telling your shrink you've
had some kind of sexual contact with a child -- that has to be
reported, although without some details regarding the identity of the
child, it probably wouldn't matter. I hate to say it, but Social
Services is full of red tape, too -- and they are very strict about
what they can and cannot investigate. Hearing that some child may have
been molested doesn't do it. Then there's the issue of jurisdiction,
and while the law is a little more flexible in that regard, individual
agencies may not be.
Just to give you an idea of what can happen, consider the case of childrens'
entertainer Eric Nagler.
A number of years ago, Mr. Nagler was accused of fondling the breast of a 12-year-
old girl. Almost immediately, after news of this accusation broke, his television
and other appearances were cancelled, leaving him without work (or income).
Describing what happened to him on CBC Radio, he related how he received a
telephone call from the Childrens' Aid Society informing him that his name was
being put on a register of sex offenders. Now, remember at this point, he still
had not been convicted (he was never convicted of anything), let alone having a
chance to offer up his side of the story. The worker on the other end of the
phone told him that he was being informed 'as a courtesy.'
He was further informed that he could have his name removed from the list, if
he were to appear before a panel and *show cause* as to why his name should be
removed. He asked the worker with no small amount of incredulity,
'You mean ny name can be put on this list with no hearing, no conviction,
nothing at all but a complaint, but to get it removed I have to show cause as
to why it should be removed?' The worker answered, 'That's right.' and hung up.
That shows the current state of hysteria that we find ourselves in--to be accused
is to be guilty; there is no such thing as presumption of innocence, only a
presumption of unproven guilt.
In such an atmosphere, why would anyone in their right mind voluntarily present
themselves for 'professional help'?
Again, this man was not seeking professional help -- he was accused of
committing a crime. Don't get me wrong, I quite agree that what
happened to him was inexcusable, but there is a difference.

I personally have gone into therapy twice to help deal with
pedophilia. Unfortunately, neither experience was very helpful, and
now that I'm having some problems with severe depression, I am
actually resisting my doctor's opinion that I should see a Shrink.
Hell, if I could see some of the shrinks I worked with -- whom I knew
were damn good at what they did, I would have no qualms. But the local
Public Mental Health Center does not seem to be as good as the one I
worked for. They actually tried to tell me that they didn't work with
sexual offenders -- at which I pointed out that I was not a sexual
offender, and didn't want to become one. I didn't point out, however,
that since the state mandates that they provide services to anyone who
seeks them, I don't see how they could legitimately refuse anyone even
if they are a sexual offender. Trust me, where I worked, we didn't
have that option!

Unfortunately, being cleared of such accusations usually isn't enough.
A few years ago, a teacher at the high school I attended many years
ago was accused by a young lady of having sex with her -- in the
classrooms. The interesting thing is that all of the classroom doors
have windows in them, and it would have been incredibly stupid to try
something like that -- but it went to court, where the young lady's
history of pathological lying and other emotional disturbances were
enough to acquit him; but, he didn't have a job, had spent a fortune
in legal fees, and had suffered a great ordeal. He and his wife and
their infant son moved away, and I have no idea what happened to him
since, but the point is that, despite having been proven innocent in a
court, his career was potentially ruined along with his life. He could
have fought the dismissal from the local public school system, but
that would have cost more, and they would have found a way to get rid
of him before he could earn tenure, so what was the point?
Baal
Retired Lecturer, Encryption and Data Security, Pedo U, Usenet Campus
"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD
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4s00th
bob&carole
2007-01-02 13:23:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
Should we stop making matches because there are pyromaniacs?
cut2open
I'm not sure what it's like for MaxGrrl's condition, but in the case of
pedophilia, in many jurisdictions, there are mandatory reporting laws in place.
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing with his sexual
attraction towards children and accordingly seeks professional help. Let's
assume that Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his background
that would indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins seeing a
therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required by
law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported,
Joe's name will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker,
LOL...now that's scary....


I can say that I don't know of any law in
Post by 4s00th
the US, or at least the state I worked in, that required anyone to
report anything about someone's feelings unless they started to affect
behavior. Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical Doctors
We need to pass a law...thanke for the idea...
Post by 4s00th
including Shrinks and Teachers are required by law to report any
suspicions of child abuse or neglect to Social Services, the sole
authority for investigating complaints of abuse and neglect, though we
used to ask the State Troopers or Countie Mounties for an assist in
cases of excessive violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should do nothing
more than cause a notation in your chart. Telling your shrink you've
had some kind of sexual contact with a child -- that has to be
reported, although without some details regarding the identity of the
child, it probably wouldn't matter. I hate to say it, but Social
Services is full of red tape, too -- and they are very strict about
what they can and cannot investigate. Hearing that some child may have
been molested doesn't do it. Then there's the issue of jurisdiction,
and while the law is a little more flexible in that regard, individual
agencies may not be.
Just to give you an idea of what can happen, consider the case of childrens'
entertainer Eric Nagler.
A number of years ago, Mr. Nagler was accused of fondling the breast of a 12-year-
old girl. Almost immediately, after news of this accusation broke, his television
and other appearances were cancelled, leaving him without work (or income).
Describing what happened to him on CBC Radio, he related how he received a
telephone call from the Childrens' Aid Society informing him that his name was
being put on a register of sex offenders. Now, remember at this point, he still
had not been convicted (he was never convicted of anything), let alone having a
chance to offer up his side of the story. The worker on the other end of the
phone told him that he was being informed 'as a courtesy.'
He was further informed that he could have his name removed from the list, if
he were to appear before a panel and *show cause* as to why his name should be
removed. He asked the worker with no small amount of incredulity,
'You mean ny name can be put on this list with no hearing, no conviction,
nothing at all but a complaint, but to get it removed I have to show cause as
to why it should be removed?' The worker answered, 'That's right.' and hung up.
That shows the current state of hysteria that we find ourselves in--to be accused
is to be guilty; there is no such thing as presumption of innocence, only a
presumption of unproven guilt.
In such an atmosphere, why would anyone in their right mind voluntarily present
themselves for 'professional help'?
Again, this man was not seeking professional help -- he was accused of
committing a crime. Don't get me wrong, I quite agree that what
happened to him was inexcusable, but there is a difference.
I personally have gone into therapy twice to help deal with
pedophilia. Unfortunately, neither experience was very helpful, and
now that I'm having some problems with severe depression, I am
actually resisting my doctor's opinion that I should see a Shrink.
Hell, if I could see some of the shrinks I worked with -- whom I knew
were damn good at what they did, I would have no qualms. But the local
Public Mental Health Center does not seem to be as good as the one I
worked for. They actually tried to tell me that they didn't work with
sexual offenders -- at which I pointed out that I was not a sexual
offender, and didn't want to become one. I didn't point out, however,
that since the state mandates that they provide services to anyone who
seeks them, I don't see how they could legitimately refuse anyone even
if they are a sexual offender. Trust me, where I worked, we didn't
have that option!
Unfortunately, being cleared of such accusations usually isn't enough.
A few years ago, a teacher at the high school I attended many years
ago was accused by a young lady of having sex with her -- in the
classrooms. The interesting thing is that all of the classroom doors
have windows in them, and it would have been incredibly stupid to try
something like that -- but it went to court, where the young lady's
history of pathological lying and other emotional disturbances were
enough to acquit him; but, he didn't have a job, had spent a fortune
in legal fees, and had suffered a great ordeal. He and his wife and
their infant son moved away, and I have no idea what happened to him
since, but the point is that, despite having been proven innocent in a
court, his career was potentially ruined along with his life. He could
have fought the dismissal from the local public school system, but
that would have cost more, and they would have found a way to get rid
of him before he could earn tenure, so what was the point?
Baal
Retired Lecturer, Encryption and Data Security, Pedo U, Usenet Campus
"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD
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4s00th
TomBa
2007-01-02 18:57:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I
really do) that others of MY kind get off on stories of
serial murder - made up and REAL - and they often use them
for . . . well . . . let's just call them deviant
behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a
smart ass. Should we stop making matches because there are
pyromaniacs? cut2open
I'm not sure what it's like for MaxGrrl's condition, but in
the case of pedophilia, in many jurisdictions, there are
mandatory reporting laws in place.
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing
with his sexual attraction towards children and accordingly
seeks professional help. Let's assume that Joe has no prior
convictions, nor anything else in his background that would
indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins
seeing a therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The
therapist may be required by law to report Joe depending on
what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported, Joe's name
will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker,
LOL...now that's scary....
Yeah, it must scare the crap out of you when you encounter someone
with first-hand professional experiences (i.e. facts) that demolish
your tenuous opinions.

Not to fear, though, because you can always resort to name calling
and slander to make yourself feel better; at the expense of your
credibility.
Post by bob&carole
I can say that I don't know of any law in
Post by 4s00th
the US, or at least the state I worked in, that required anyone
to report anything about someone's feelings unless they started
to affect behavior. Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors,
Medical Doctors
We need to pass a law...thanke for the idea...
Well boobie, here's your opportunity. You can start an initiative
that mandates reporting of feelings (and prosecution when classified
as un-natural) nation wide ... It should be a slam-dunk for you since
'everybody despises' those that have feelings counter to your own.
You could probably get a Constitutional ammendment named in your
honor!

Here's a start for you:

"It shall be illegal for any person to hold thoughts or feelings of
the following: (fill in list of undesirable thoughts/feelings here).
Those persons suspected of harboring such thoughts/feelings shall be
reported and prosecuted to the full extent of the law, including but
not limited to (fill in desired punishments here)."

I'm sure that you would have the backing of God, the Founding
Fathers, and all 'normal' people behind you. How can you lose?
TomBa NP-f36
--
You know how dumb the average guy is?
Well, by definition, half of them are even dumber than that.
Anon
bob&carole
2007-01-03 14:24:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by TomBa
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I
really do) that others of MY kind get off on stories of
serial murder - made up and REAL - and they often use them
for . . . well . . . let's just call them deviant
behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a
smart ass. Should we stop making matches because there are
pyromaniacs? cut2open
I'm not sure what it's like for MaxGrrl's condition, but in
the case of pedophilia, in many jurisdictions, there are
mandatory reporting laws in place.
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing
with his sexual attraction towards children and accordingly
seeks professional help. Let's assume that Joe has no prior
convictions, nor anything else in his background that would
indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins
seeing a therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The
therapist may be required by law to report Joe depending on
what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported, Joe's name
will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker,
LOL...now that's scary....
Yeah, it must scare the crap out of you when you encounter someone
with first-hand professional experiences (i.e. facts) that demolish
your tenuous opinions.
My opinion is the normal worlds opinion, and auk's :-)



WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
Post by TomBa
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank! Good work on living
up
to this award in the most exhaustive way possible...and taking it like
a
good sport when you realized that you'd been had. I'd advise you to
stop
posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am, but I
have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.

FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties. Drop him a flame.......



<snip redundant pedo babble>
Ed
2007-01-03 10:41:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
Should we stop making matches because there are pyromaniacs?
cut2open
I'm not sure what it's like for MaxGrrl's condition, but in the case of
pedophilia, in many jurisdictions, there are mandatory reporting laws in place.
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing with his sexual
attraction towards children and accordingly seeks professional help. Let's
assume that Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his background
that would indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins seeing a
therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required by
law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported,
Joe's name will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker,
LOL...now that's scary....
I can say that I don't know of any law in
Post by 4s00th
the US, or at least the state I worked in, that required anyone to
report anything about someone's feelings unless they started to affect
behavior. Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical Doctors
We need to pass a law...thanke for the idea...
Congratulations, you've re-invented the concept of "thoughtcrime."
bobandcarole~
2007-01-10 13:20:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ed
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
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Hash: SHA512
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
Then get some professional help. I'm not trying to be a smart ass.
Should we stop making matches because there are pyromaniacs?
cut2open
I'm not sure what it's like for MaxGrrl's condition, but in the case of
pedophilia, in many jurisdictions, there are mandatory reporting laws in place.
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing with his sexual
attraction towards children and accordingly seeks professional help. Let's
assume that Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his background
that would indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins seeing a
therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required by
law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported,
Joe's name will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker,
LOL...now that's scary....
I can say that I don't know of any law in
Post by 4s00th
the US, or at least the state I worked in, that required anyone to
report anything about someone's feelings unless they started to affect
behavior. Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical Doctors
We need to pass a law...thanke for the idea...
Congratulations, you've re-invented the concept of "thoughtcrime."
Congratulations, you've proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you
support Chief Suckem Yung... frank mccoy is a dried up, 70 year old
fart with severe psychological problems.
Anyone that would write such trash IS trash.
Post by Ed
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm one
of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm one
of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
Secret Squirrel
2007-01-03 01:07:58 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
Post by Baal
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing
with his sexual attraction towards children and accordingly
seeks professional help. Let's assume that Joe has no prior
convictions, nor anything else in his background that would
indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins
seeing a therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The
therapist may be required by law to report Joe depending on
what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported, Joe's
name will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some
sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know of
any law in the US, or at least the state I worked in, that
required anyone to report anything about someone's feelings
unless they started to affect behavior. Psychologists,
Social Workers, Counselors, Medical Doctors including
Shrinks and Teachers are required by law to report any
suspicions of child abuse or neglect to Social Services,
the sole authority for investigating complaints of abuse
and neglect, though we used to ask the State Troopers or
Countie Mounties for an assist in cases of excessive
violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should do
nothing more than cause a notation in your chart. Telling
your shrink you've had some kind of sexual contact with a
child -- that has to be reported, although without some
details regarding the identity of the child, it probably
wouldn't matter. I hate to say it, but Social Services is
full of red tape, too -- and they are very strict about
what they can and cannot investigate. Hearing that some
child may have been molested doesn't do it. Then there's
the issue of jurisdiction, and while the law is a little
more flexible in that regard, individual agencies may not
be.
Bruce Rind says otherwise, and agrees with Baal:

Message-ID: <20061216233837.059$***@newsreader.com>

"Anyone in the U.S. who disseminates or even possesses child
porn is subject to prosecution. Any therapist who attempts to
treat a pedophile -- even someone who admits to fantasizing
about engaging in sex with an under-aged person -- is
required by law to turn that client over to the authorities,
or risk arrest himself or herself."

Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the authorities?
How would you tell?

Secret Squirrel
Max Grrl
2007-01-03 03:08:16 UTC
Permalink
In article
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
Post by Baal
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing
with his sexual attraction towards children and accordingly
seeks professional help. Let's assume that Joe has no prior
convictions, nor anything else in his background that would
indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins
seeing a therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The
therapist may be required by law to report Joe depending on
what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported, Joe's
name will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some
sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know of
any law in the US, or at least the state I worked in, that
required anyone to report anything about someone's feelings
unless they started to affect behavior. Psychologists,
Social Workers, Counselors, Medical Doctors including
Shrinks and Teachers are required by law to report any
suspicions of child abuse or neglect to Social Services,
the sole authority for investigating complaints of abuse
and neglect, though we used to ask the State Troopers or
Countie Mounties for an assist in cases of excessive
violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should do
nothing more than cause a notation in your chart. Telling
your shrink you've had some kind of sexual contact with a
child -- that has to be reported, although without some
details regarding the identity of the child, it probably
wouldn't matter. I hate to say it, but Social Services is
full of red tape, too -- and they are very strict about
what they can and cannot investigate. Hearing that some
child may have been molested doesn't do it. Then there's
the issue of jurisdiction, and while the law is a little
more flexible in that regard, individual agencies may not
be.
"Anyone in the U.S. who disseminates or even possesses child
porn is subject to prosecution. Any therapist who attempts to
treat a pedophile -- even someone who admits to fantasizing
about engaging in sex with an under-aged person -- is
required by law to turn that client over to the authorities,
or risk arrest himself or herself."
I've looked all over the web and can't find a single reference to any
law that exists to that effect. In fact, I've found several sites that
say that unless a patient has admitted to ACTUAL sexual contact, there
is NO need to report that patient, and confidentiality is protected.

Not calling you as liar, per se, but if you personally have links to
that information, I would appreciate it. Otherwise, I might suggest
that you view Rind's documents with a bit more skepticism.
Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the authorities?
How would you tell?
AFAIK, therapists have to warn their patients about legal issues such
as that . . . mine does. A group-mate admitted to sneaking around
outside of an ex's house with a knife - the doc said he was under a
moral and legal responsibility to report him to the authorities. And he
did. My group-mate was then moved to another group and was arrested
for stalking.
Secret Squirrel
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--
Max Grrl
Secret Squirrel
2007-01-09 18:06:05 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Max Grrl <***@gmail.com> wrote in news:020120072108165797%***@gmail.com:

Resend.
Post by Baal
In article
Post by Secret Squirrel
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
Post by Baal
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble
dealing with his sexual attraction towards children and
accordingly seeks professional help. Let's assume that
Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his
background that would indicate his sexual predilections.
As soon as Joe begins seeing a therapist, then his
problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required
by law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to
the therapist. Once reported, Joe's name will almost
certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know
of any law in the US, or at least the state I worked in,
that required anyone to report anything about someone's
feelings unless they started to affect behavior.
Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical
Doctors including Shrinks and Teachers are required by
law to report any suspicions of child abuse or neglect
to Social Services, the sole authority for investigating
complaints of abuse and neglect, though we used to ask
the State Troopers or Countie Mounties for an assist in
cases of excessive violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should
do nothing more than cause a notation in your chart.
Telling your shrink you've had some kind of sexual
contact with a child -- that has to be reported,
although without some details regarding the identity of
the child, it probably wouldn't matter. I hate to say
it, but Social Services is full of red tape, too -- and
they are very strict about what they can and cannot
investigate. Hearing that some child may have been
molested doesn't do it. Then there's the issue of
jurisdiction, and while the law is a little more
flexible in that regard, individual agencies may not
be.
"Anyone in the U.S. who disseminates or even possesses
child porn is subject to prosecution. Any therapist who
attempts to treat a pedophile -- even someone who admits
to fantasizing about engaging in sex with an under-aged
person -- is required by law to turn that client over to
the authorities, or risk arrest himself or herself."
I've looked all over the web and can't find a single
reference to any law that exists to that effect. In fact,
I've found several sites that say that unless a patient has
admitted to ACTUAL sexual contact, there is NO need to
report that patient, and confidentiality is protected.
Not calling you as liar, per se, but if you personally have
links to that information, I would appreciate it.
Otherwise, I might suggest that you view Rind's documents
with a bit more skepticism.
I don't have it, other than Rind's claim. As for Rind, as he
*is* a psychologist, I figured what he wrote is accurate.

There indeed might be some legal confusion about this.
"Newshould" (where is he/she now?) posted a while back a
Salon article entitled "Why I need to look at child
pornography" which talked about the press's need to look at
child porn in order to verify what governmental officialdom
and self-appointed defenders of children say--given the fact
that much of what they've told us, once someone *did* check
their "facts", was found out to be completely untrue
(organized crime child sex rings, satanist child sex rings,
the trade in child porn is worth more than the *entire adult
porn industry*, etc. etc. etc.). Salon pulled the article
after belatedly "discovering" that investigators can indeed
qualify under Federal Law to get permission to look at child
pornography.

However, I'm not so easily dissuaded. You see, the author
of the Salon article had consulted her superior's lawyers on
the law, and was going on *their* recommendations and
interpretations; she wasn't just basing her article on her
own knowledge of the law. So at least *some competent* people
interpreted Federal law as being far more stringent than
Salon.

My point? Even if the law does not in fact require a
therapist to turn your name over to the authorities for the
mere admitting to fantasies of sex with children, your
therapist, or his/her superiors, or their lawyers, might
interpret the law as requiring just that. Or in the case of
ambiguity, a lawyer might tell the therapist that there were
less legal jeopardy in a policy of reporting every such
confession as opposed to not reporting them. In fact, I
almost would expect such advice ("Screw the patient's
interest, cover your own legal butt!"). The only way to
prevent this is to have clear, unambiguous, language in the
law that *prohibits* such disclosures of what a patient tells
a therapist during therapy. I don't see why we can't, heck,
when I was in the hospital the nurses and doctors could not
disclose anything about the physical ailments of the patients
right next door without putting themselves in legal
jeopardy.

As such, I do not believe that admitting this is wise in
the US and other places. I have a poor opinion of psychiatry
anyways, it seems that the standard for being qualified to
give therapy, if nothing else, is a low one. (How else can
you have "Bible-based psychiatrists" advertising?).

If I were to go talk to someone about my own feelings, in
person, I'd do so to a pastor or priest, because I think that
what you tell them is still protected from disclosure.
(Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this).
Post by Baal
Post by Secret Squirrel
Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the
authorities? How would you tell?
AFAIK, therapists have to warn their patients about legal
issues such as that . . . mine does. A group-mate admitted
to sneaking around outside of an ex's house with a knife -
the doc said he was under a moral and legal responsibility
to report him to the authorities. And he did. My
group-mate was then moved to another group and was arrested
for stalking.
That would be good, though I think that this is a relatively
recent development. I recall a local talk-radio show long ago
where a man was arrested after a psychiatrist disclosed the
fact that he was having sex with kids. Surprisingly, many of
the callers were angry about this, because the man had
approached the therapist in order to seek help in stopping
his behavior, and they saw the arrest as a disincentive to
any who were seeking similar help. The public is smarter than
we give them credit for sometimes.

Secret Squirrel
4s00th
2007-01-10 04:39:54 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 09 Jan 2007 19:06:05 +0100, Secret Squirrel
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Resend.
Post by Baal
In article
Post by Secret Squirrel
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
Post by Baal
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble
dealing with his sexual attraction towards children and
accordingly seeks professional help. Let's assume that
Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his
background that would indicate his sexual predilections.
As soon as Joe begins seeing a therapist, then his
problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required
by law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to
the therapist. Once reported, Joe's name will almost
certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know
of any law in the US, or at least the state I worked in,
that required anyone to report anything about someone's
feelings unless they started to affect behavior.
Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical
Doctors including Shrinks and Teachers are required by
law to report any suspicions of child abuse or neglect
to Social Services, the sole authority for investigating
complaints of abuse and neglect, though we used to ask
the State Troopers or Countie Mounties for an assist in
cases of excessive violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should
do nothing more than cause a notation in your chart.
Telling your shrink you've had some kind of sexual
contact with a child -- that has to be reported,
although without some details regarding the identity of
the child, it probably wouldn't matter. I hate to say
it, but Social Services is full of red tape, too -- and
they are very strict about what they can and cannot
investigate. Hearing that some child may have been
molested doesn't do it. Then there's the issue of
jurisdiction, and while the law is a little more
flexible in that regard, individual agencies may not
be.
"Anyone in the U.S. who disseminates or even possesses
child porn is subject to prosecution. Any therapist who
attempts to treat a pedophile -- even someone who admits
to fantasizing about engaging in sex with an under-aged
person -- is required by law to turn that client over to
the authorities, or risk arrest himself or herself."
I've looked all over the web and can't find a single
reference to any law that exists to that effect. In fact,
I've found several sites that say that unless a patient has
admitted to ACTUAL sexual contact, there is NO need to
report that patient, and confidentiality is protected.
Not calling you as liar, per se, but if you personally have
links to that information, I would appreciate it.
Otherwise, I might suggest that you view Rind's documents
with a bit more skepticism.
I don't have it, other than Rind's claim. As for Rind, as he
*is* a psychologist, I figured what he wrote is accurate.
There indeed might be some legal confusion about this.
"Newshould" (where is he/she now?) posted a while back a
Salon article entitled "Why I need to look at child
pornography" which talked about the press's need to look at
child porn in order to verify what governmental officialdom
and self-appointed defenders of children say--given the fact
that much of what they've told us, once someone *did* check
their "facts", was found out to be completely untrue
(organized crime child sex rings, satanist child sex rings,
the trade in child porn is worth more than the *entire adult
porn industry*, etc. etc. etc.). Salon pulled the article
after belatedly "discovering" that investigators can indeed
qualify under Federal Law to get permission to look at child
pornography.
However, I'm not so easily dissuaded. You see, the author
of the Salon article had consulted her superior's lawyers on
the law, and was going on *their* recommendations and
interpretations; she wasn't just basing her article on her
own knowledge of the law. So at least *some competent* people
interpreted Federal law as being far more stringent than
Salon.
My point? Even if the law does not in fact require a
therapist to turn your name over to the authorities for the
mere admitting to fantasies of sex with children, your
therapist, or his/her superiors, or their lawyers, might
interpret the law as requiring just that. Or in the case of
ambiguity, a lawyer might tell the therapist that there were
less legal jeopardy in a policy of reporting every such
confession as opposed to not reporting them. In fact, I
almost would expect such advice ("Screw the patient's
interest, cover your own legal butt!"). The only way to
prevent this is to have clear, unambiguous, language in the
law that *prohibits* such disclosures of what a patient tells
a therapist during therapy. I don't see why we can't, heck,
when I was in the hospital the nurses and doctors could not
disclose anything about the physical ailments of the patients
right next door without putting themselves in legal
jeopardy.
As such, I do not believe that admitting this is wise in
the US and other places. I have a poor opinion of psychiatry
anyways, it seems that the standard for being qualified to
give therapy, if nothing else, is a low one. (How else can
you have "Bible-based psychiatrists" advertising?).
Some states have more exacting criteria regarding who can and cannot
call himself a counselor and provide counseling. Unfortunately, if
they are a psychiatrist, they are licensed doctors of psychiatry and
can practice "Bible-based" therapies. But most people don't see
psychiatrists for therapy; they see psychologists or counselors for
therapy in conjunction with a psychiatrist to determine if there are
any medical needs, such as prescriptions for antidepressants.
If I were to go talk to someone about my own feelings, in
person, I'd do so to a pastor or priest, because I think that
what you tell them is still protected from disclosure.
(Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this).
Post by Baal
Post by Secret Squirrel
Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the
authorities? How would you tell?
AFAIK, therapists have to warn their patients about legal
issues such as that . . . mine does. A group-mate admitted
to sneaking around outside of an ex's house with a knife -
the doc said he was under a moral and legal responsibility
to report him to the authorities. And he did. My
group-mate was then moved to another group and was arrested
for stalking.
That would be good, though I think that this is a relatively
recent development. I recall a local talk-radio show long ago
where a man was arrested after a psychiatrist disclosed the
fact that he was having sex with kids. Surprisingly, many of
the callers were angry about this, because the man had
approached the therapist in order to seek help in stopping
his behavior, and they saw the arrest as a disincentive to
any who were seeking similar help. The public is smarter than
we give them credit for sometimes.
But that is, at the very least, consistent with the law in my state --
psychiatrists, psychologists, social workers, counselors and any other
mental health workers, medical doctors and their staff, and teachers
are required by law to report suspicion of abuse -- and in this case,
the therapist was told that there was abuse and was required to
report. It may not seem fair since the man was seeking help, but the
fact is that he had committed a crime.

However, the laws specify that the only time that such information CAN
be released is when -- as stated, there is a suspicion of abuse (and
the report has to meet social services definitions to be investigated,
so just being a pedophile or having fantasies does not meet the
criteria, and if the report does not meet the criteria or the
investigation finds the report unfounded, the agency is required to
destroy those records); a person makes a threat against himself or a
specific person (based on the Tarasoff decision: Tarasoff v. The
Regents of the University of California, ca 1970, although the
precedent did not immediately spread to other states); or the person
represents a significant risk to hurt himself or others -- and that
only allows you to have a patient held in a hospital on an Emergency
Custody Order for no more than 72 hours or less upon review by a
judge. Again, having fantasies, desires and dreams are not sufficient
cause to get an ECO, and certainly wouldn't stand up before a judge an
earn a Temporary Detainment Order.

There are other circumstances where medical records can be subpoenaed
or be opened by court order. Those circumstances only occur after a
crime has been committed and when said records could be evidence in
the case. Often, this is done by the defendant to show mental stress
or a previous condition or in trying to cop a not guilty by reason of
insanity plea. Unfortunately, the laws regarding such pleas have
changed so that making such a plea can actually put you into
court-ordered in-patient psychiatric care for as long as the court
decides you need to be held, whereas most crimes carry limits on the
actual sentences.

Whatever you may think, a mental health record maintained by a
counselor or shrink is considered a medical record and is subject to
the same laws that govern any other medical records. If a client
brought a friend into my office and introduced me to him or her, then
the friend came back later and wanted to talk to me about that client,
I would have to tell the friend that I cannot confirm or deny that I
know or treat the person he/she is talking about without prior
consent.

Once again, I have not actually been in practice for several years,
but everything I have found on the APA web page supports the
information I am providing -- and if the law had changed in that
period since I retired, there would be specific notices. Okay, maybe
I'm only assuming that there would be specific notices, but doctors
and practices and agencies are pretty rabid about understanding the
letter of the law, and I'm reasonably sure I would have found
something.

4s00th
Secret Squirrel
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Max Grrl
2007-01-10 05:45:32 UTC
Permalink
In article
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Resend.
Post by Baal
In article
Post by Secret Squirrel
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
Post by Baal
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble
dealing with his sexual attraction towards children and
accordingly seeks professional help. Let's assume that
Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his
background that would indicate his sexual predilections.
As soon as Joe begins seeing a therapist, then his
problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required
by law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to
the therapist. Once reported, Joe's name will almost
certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know
of any law in the US, or at least the state I worked in,
that required anyone to report anything about someone's
feelings unless they started to affect behavior.
Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical
Doctors including Shrinks and Teachers are required by
law to report any suspicions of child abuse or neglect
to Social Services, the sole authority for investigating
complaints of abuse and neglect, though we used to ask
the State Troopers or Countie Mounties for an assist in
cases of excessive violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should
do nothing more than cause a notation in your chart.
Telling your shrink you've had some kind of sexual
contact with a child -- that has to be reported,
although without some details regarding the identity of
the child, it probably wouldn't matter. I hate to say
it, but Social Services is full of red tape, too -- and
they are very strict about what they can and cannot
investigate. Hearing that some child may have been
molested doesn't do it. Then there's the issue of
jurisdiction, and while the law is a little more
flexible in that regard, individual agencies may not
be.
"Anyone in the U.S. who disseminates or even possesses
child porn is subject to prosecution. Any therapist who
attempts to treat a pedophile -- even someone who admits
to fantasizing about engaging in sex with an under-aged
person -- is required by law to turn that client over to
the authorities, or risk arrest himself or herself."
I've looked all over the web and can't find a single
reference to any law that exists to that effect. In fact,
I've found several sites that say that unless a patient has
admitted to ACTUAL sexual contact, there is NO need to
report that patient, and confidentiality is protected.
Not calling you as liar, per se, but if you personally have
links to that information, I would appreciate it.
Otherwise, I might suggest that you view Rind's documents
with a bit more skepticism.
I don't have it, other than Rind's claim. As for Rind, as he
*is* a psychologist, I figured what he wrote is accurate.
There indeed might be some legal confusion about this.
"Newshould" (where is he/she now?) posted a while back a
Salon article entitled "Why I need to look at child
pornography" which talked about the press's need to look at
child porn in order to verify what governmental officialdom
and self-appointed defenders of children say--given the fact
that much of what they've told us, once someone *did* check
their "facts", was found out to be completely untrue
(organized crime child sex rings, satanist child sex rings,
the trade in child porn is worth more than the *entire adult
porn industry*, etc. etc. etc.). Salon pulled the article
after belatedly "discovering" that investigators can indeed
qualify under Federal Law to get permission to look at child
pornography.
However, I'm not so easily dissuaded. You see, the author
of the Salon article had consulted her superior's lawyers on
the law, and was going on *their* recommendations and
interpretations; she wasn't just basing her article on her
own knowledge of the law. So at least *some competent* people
interpreted Federal law as being far more stringent than
Salon.
My point? Even if the law does not in fact require a
therapist to turn your name over to the authorities for the
mere admitting to fantasies of sex with children, your
therapist, or his/her superiors, or their lawyers, might
interpret the law as requiring just that. Or in the case of
ambiguity, a lawyer might tell the therapist that there were
less legal jeopardy in a policy of reporting every such
confession as opposed to not reporting them. In fact, I
almost would expect such advice ("Screw the patient's
interest, cover your own legal butt!"). The only way to
prevent this is to have clear, unambiguous, language in the
law that *prohibits* such disclosures of what a patient tells
a therapist during therapy. I don't see why we can't, heck,
when I was in the hospital the nurses and doctors could not
disclose anything about the physical ailments of the patients
right next door without putting themselves in legal
jeopardy.
As such, I do not believe that admitting this is wise in
the US and other places. I have a poor opinion of psychiatry
anyways, it seems that the standard for being qualified to
give therapy, if nothing else, is a low one. (How else can
you have "Bible-based psychiatrists" advertising?).
If I were to go talk to someone about my own feelings, in
person, I'd do so to a pastor or priest, because I think that
what you tell them is still protected from disclosure.
(Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this).
Post by Baal
Post by Secret Squirrel
Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the
authorities? How would you tell?
AFAIK, therapists have to warn their patients about legal
issues such as that . . . mine does. A group-mate admitted
to sneaking around outside of an ex's house with a knife -
the doc said he was under a moral and legal responsibility
to report him to the authorities. And he did. My
group-mate was then moved to another group and was arrested
for stalking.
That would be good, though I think that this is a relatively
recent development. I recall a local talk-radio show long ago
where a man was arrested after a psychiatrist disclosed the
fact that he was having sex with kids. Surprisingly, many of
the callers were angry about this, because the man had
approached the therapist in order to seek help in stopping
his behavior, and they saw the arrest as a disincentive to
any who were seeking similar help. The public is smarter than
we give them credit for sometimes.
Well, I mentioned it previously in this (or another?) thread that a
serial killer named Mike DeBardeleben actually manipulated his
therapist into advising him to write down his "fantasies" of murder and
sexual sadism - however, they weren't just fantasies - he actually
LIVED them out. And in the end, his numerous journals and TAPES weren't
allowed as evidence in his trial as they were protected under
doctor-patient confidentiality.

My point is, if his journals were protected and not allowed as evidence
in a criminal trial, I don't see how the mentioning of deviant sexual
desires could be enough to force a therapist to report a person to the
police, much less break that confidentiality. Now, IF a pedophile (or
wannabe rapist, for that matter) mentions the desire and intention to
actually COMMIT a sexual crime, then yes, I would think that reporting
that person (much like if I went to my next session and said "Today I'm
going to kill someone") is the therapist's responsibility.

Otherwise, your business is YOUR business. Until you break the law or
TELL someone that you are GOING to break the law, you have the RIGHT to
privacy.
*sigh*
Of course, I'll be flamed now, for saying that.
*max puts on flame-retardant suit*
Secret Squirrel
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--
Max Grrl
4s00th
2007-01-10 06:47:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Baal
In article
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Resend.
Post by Baal
In article
Post by Secret Squirrel
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
Post by Baal
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble
dealing with his sexual attraction towards children and
accordingly seeks professional help. Let's assume that
Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his
background that would indicate his sexual predilections.
As soon as Joe begins seeing a therapist, then his
problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required
by law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to
the therapist. Once reported, Joe's name will almost
certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know
of any law in the US, or at least the state I worked in,
that required anyone to report anything about someone's
feelings unless they started to affect behavior.
Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical
Doctors including Shrinks and Teachers are required by
law to report any suspicions of child abuse or neglect
to Social Services, the sole authority for investigating
complaints of abuse and neglect, though we used to ask
the State Troopers or Countie Mounties for an assist in
cases of excessive violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should
do nothing more than cause a notation in your chart.
Telling your shrink you've had some kind of sexual
contact with a child -- that has to be reported,
although without some details regarding the identity of
the child, it probably wouldn't matter. I hate to say
it, but Social Services is full of red tape, too -- and
they are very strict about what they can and cannot
investigate. Hearing that some child may have been
molested doesn't do it. Then there's the issue of
jurisdiction, and while the law is a little more
flexible in that regard, individual agencies may not
be.
"Anyone in the U.S. who disseminates or even possesses
child porn is subject to prosecution. Any therapist who
attempts to treat a pedophile -- even someone who admits
to fantasizing about engaging in sex with an under-aged
person -- is required by law to turn that client over to
the authorities, or risk arrest himself or herself."
I've looked all over the web and can't find a single
reference to any law that exists to that effect. In fact,
I've found several sites that say that unless a patient has
admitted to ACTUAL sexual contact, there is NO need to
report that patient, and confidentiality is protected.
Not calling you as liar, per se, but if you personally have
links to that information, I would appreciate it.
Otherwise, I might suggest that you view Rind's documents
with a bit more skepticism.
I don't have it, other than Rind's claim. As for Rind, as he
*is* a psychologist, I figured what he wrote is accurate.
There indeed might be some legal confusion about this.
"Newshould" (where is he/she now?) posted a while back a
Salon article entitled "Why I need to look at child
pornography" which talked about the press's need to look at
child porn in order to verify what governmental officialdom
and self-appointed defenders of children say--given the fact
that much of what they've told us, once someone *did* check
their "facts", was found out to be completely untrue
(organized crime child sex rings, satanist child sex rings,
the trade in child porn is worth more than the *entire adult
porn industry*, etc. etc. etc.). Salon pulled the article
after belatedly "discovering" that investigators can indeed
qualify under Federal Law to get permission to look at child
pornography.
However, I'm not so easily dissuaded. You see, the author
of the Salon article had consulted her superior's lawyers on
the law, and was going on *their* recommendations and
interpretations; she wasn't just basing her article on her
own knowledge of the law. So at least *some competent* people
interpreted Federal law as being far more stringent than
Salon.
My point? Even if the law does not in fact require a
therapist to turn your name over to the authorities for the
mere admitting to fantasies of sex with children, your
therapist, or his/her superiors, or their lawyers, might
interpret the law as requiring just that. Or in the case of
ambiguity, a lawyer might tell the therapist that there were
less legal jeopardy in a policy of reporting every such
confession as opposed to not reporting them. In fact, I
almost would expect such advice ("Screw the patient's
interest, cover your own legal butt!"). The only way to
prevent this is to have clear, unambiguous, language in the
law that *prohibits* such disclosures of what a patient tells
a therapist during therapy. I don't see why we can't, heck,
when I was in the hospital the nurses and doctors could not
disclose anything about the physical ailments of the patients
right next door without putting themselves in legal
jeopardy.
As such, I do not believe that admitting this is wise in
the US and other places. I have a poor opinion of psychiatry
anyways, it seems that the standard for being qualified to
give therapy, if nothing else, is a low one. (How else can
you have "Bible-based psychiatrists" advertising?).
If I were to go talk to someone about my own feelings, in
person, I'd do so to a pastor or priest, because I think that
what you tell them is still protected from disclosure.
(Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this).
Post by Baal
Post by Secret Squirrel
Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the
authorities? How would you tell?
AFAIK, therapists have to warn their patients about legal
issues such as that . . . mine does. A group-mate admitted
to sneaking around outside of an ex's house with a knife -
the doc said he was under a moral and legal responsibility
to report him to the authorities. And he did. My
group-mate was then moved to another group and was arrested
for stalking.
That would be good, though I think that this is a relatively
recent development. I recall a local talk-radio show long ago
where a man was arrested after a psychiatrist disclosed the
fact that he was having sex with kids. Surprisingly, many of
the callers were angry about this, because the man had
approached the therapist in order to seek help in stopping
his behavior, and they saw the arrest as a disincentive to
any who were seeking similar help. The public is smarter than
we give them credit for sometimes.
Well, I mentioned it previously in this (or another?) thread that a
serial killer named Mike DeBardeleben actually manipulated his
therapist into advising him to write down his "fantasies" of murder and
sexual sadism - however, they weren't just fantasies - he actually
LIVED them out. And in the end, his numerous journals and TAPES weren't
allowed as evidence in his trial as they were protected under
doctor-patient confidentiality.
See, I don't get that. If his journals held details of his actual
activities, then it probably could have been subpoenaed or opened by
court order. After a crime has been committed, the law does allow
medical records to be entered as evidence and the court can either
subpoena the records -- which can be refused, or "order" that the
records be entered as evidence. Refusing a court order can have nasty
repurcussions for a practice. Doctor-Patient confidentiality is not
protected when it contains evidence of a crime. I guess if the
journals were carefully worded, then a judge might rule that they
cannot be used, but I can't tell you exactly how to do it, and it may
be that those "loopholes" have been closed.
Post by Baal
My point is, if his journals were protected and not allowed as evidence
in a criminal trial, I don't see how the mentioning of deviant sexual
desires could be enough to force a therapist to report a person to the
police, much less break that confidentiality. Now, IF a pedophile (or
wannabe rapist, for that matter) mentions the desire and intention to
actually COMMIT a sexual crime, then yes, I would think that reporting
that person (much like if I went to my next session and said "Today I'm
going to kill someone") is the therapist's responsibility.
Again, that depends. If he says "I'm going to hurt someone," you have
to check for stuff like plans and means and all, and unless the person
recants, if you can show that he is an imminent risk to act on his
threat, then you would be ethically required to pursue an ECO
(emergency custody order) from the magistrate ... or however such
matters are handled in your locality. If the person makes threats
against a specific person, then you are required to warn that person
(the Tarasoff decision set the precedent) AND seek an ECO. By the same
token, if someone says he's going to kill himself, then you are
required to assess whether he is in imminent danger of following
through on the threat -- such as, does he have a plan on how to do it,
is he fixated on the idea of suicide, is he showing other signs that
suggest he is at risk -- and, if so, you again seek an ECO.
Post by Baal
Otherwise, your business is YOUR business. Until you break the law or
TELL someone that you are GOING to break the law, you have the RIGHT to
privacy.
Despite what anyone may think, medical records kept by mental health
professionals are considered medical records and are subject to the
exact same laws and protections as any other medical record.
Post by Baal
*sigh*
Of course, I'll be flamed now, for saying that.
*max puts on flame-retardant suit*
You won't be the first person flamed for simply telling the truth! Or
the last, unfortunately. But now that I've chimed in, they'll prolly
just attack me! LOL! But you know what really burns my ass?
Post by Baal
Secret Squirrel
A flame about three feet high!

4s00th
Post by Baal
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Laurence Taylor
2007-01-10 09:41:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Secret Squirrel
There indeed might be some legal confusion about this.
"Newshould" (where is he/she now?) posted a while back a
Salon article entitled "Why I need to look at child
pornography" which talked about the press's need to look at
child porn in order to verify what governmental officialdom
and self-appointed defenders of children say--given the fact
that much of what they've told us, once someone *did* check
their "facts", was found out to be completely untrue
(organized crime child sex rings, satanist child sex rings,
the trade in child porn is worth more than the *entire adult
porn industry*, etc. etc. etc.). Salon pulled the article
after belatedly "discovering" that investigators can indeed
qualify under Federal Law to get permission to look at child
pornography.
In the UK, I understand that no-one other than the police is permitted
to posess the material (and there have been a number policemen
prosecuted for "taking work home"), with the result that one group of
psychologists, researching sexual offending, was forced to move
overseas in order to work without being in danger of arrest.

The sex rings, massive financial rewards, etc, are simply inventions.
I used to know someone who was described by the press as part of "the
biggest paedophile ring in the country". Since this "ring" consisted
of some twelve people who sat around drinking tea and bemoaning the
state of the nation, that doesn't say much for all the smaller ones!
Post by Secret Squirrel
However, I'm not so easily dissuaded. You see, the author
of the Salon article had consulted her superior's lawyers on
the law, and was going on *their* recommendations and
interpretations; she wasn't just basing her article on her
own knowledge of the law. So at least *some competent* people
interpreted Federal law as being far more stringent than
Salon.
My point? Even if the law does not in fact require a
therapist to turn your name over to the authorities for the
mere admitting to fantasies of sex with children, your
therapist, or his/her superiors, or their lawyers, might
interpret the law as requiring just that. Or in the case of
ambiguity, a lawyer might tell the therapist that there were
less legal jeopardy in a policy of reporting every such
confession as opposed to not reporting them. In fact, I
almost would expect such advice ("Screw the patient's
interest, cover your own legal butt!").
Covering your butt is Rule One in most situations.

The only way to
Post by Secret Squirrel
prevent this is to have clear, unambiguous, language in the
law that *prohibits* such disclosures of what a patient tells
a therapist during therapy. I don't see why we can't, heck,
when I was in the hospital the nurses and doctors could not
disclose anything about the physical ailments of the patients
right next door without putting themselves in legal
jeopardy.
Agreed.
Post by Secret Squirrel
As such, I do not believe that admitting this is wise in
the US and other places. I have a poor opinion of psychiatry
anyways, it seems that the standard for being qualified to
give therapy, if nothing else, is a low one. (How else can
you have "Bible-based psychiatrists" advertising?).
I don't know the situation in the USA, but over here it is unfortunate
that anyone can set themselves up as a "counsellor" with no training
or qualifications at all (though such is available), and can do
immense damage in the process. To become a psychiatrist one first has
to go train as a doctor.
Post by Secret Squirrel
If I were to go talk to someone about my own feelings, in
person, I'd do so to a pastor or priest, because I think that
what you tell them is still protected from disclosure.
(Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this).
I suspect that may only apply during Confession; what you tell the
priest over tea and cakes, however serious and personal it may be,
probably isn't protected.
Post by Secret Squirrel
Post by Max Grrl
Post by Secret Squirrel
Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the
authorities? How would you tell?
AFAIK, therapists have to warn their patients about legal
issues such as that . . . mine does. A group-mate admitted
to sneaking around outside of an ex's house with a knife -
the doc said he was under a moral and legal responsibility
to report him to the authorities. And he did. My
group-mate was then moved to another group and was arrested
for stalking.
That would be good, though I think that this is a relatively
recent development. I recall a local talk-radio show long ago
where a man was arrested after a psychiatrist disclosed the
fact that he was having sex with kids. Surprisingly, many of
the callers were angry about this, because the man had
approached the therapist in order to seek help in stopping
his behavior, and they saw the arrest as a disincentive to
any who were seeking similar help. The public is smarter than
we give them credit for sometimes.
Indeed. I wonder how many people are deterred from seeking help
because they know they might end up in prison?
--
rgds
LAurence

...HEADLINE: Prostitutes appeal to Pope
---*TagZilla 0.059* http://tagzilla.mozdev.org
Secret Squirrel
2007-01-09 19:48:42 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Max Grrl <***@gmail.com> wrote in news:020120072108165797%***@gmail.com:

Resend.
Post by Baal
In article
Post by Secret Squirrel
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
Post by Baal
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble
dealing with his sexual attraction towards children and
accordingly seeks professional help. Let's assume that
Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his
background that would indicate his sexual predilections.
As soon as Joe begins seeing a therapist, then his
problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required
by law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to
the therapist. Once reported, Joe's name will almost
certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know
of any law in the US, or at least the state I worked in,
that required anyone to report anything about someone's
feelings unless they started to affect behavior.
Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical
Doctors including Shrinks and Teachers are required by
law to report any suspicions of child abuse or neglect
to Social Services, the sole authority for investigating
complaints of abuse and neglect, though we used to ask
the State Troopers or Countie Mounties for an assist in
cases of excessive violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should
do nothing more than cause a notation in your chart.
Telling your shrink you've had some kind of sexual
contact with a child -- that has to be reported,
although without some details regarding the identity of
the child, it probably wouldn't matter. I hate to say
it, but Social Services is full of red tape, too -- and
they are very strict about what they can and cannot
investigate. Hearing that some child may have been
molested doesn't do it. Then there's the issue of
jurisdiction, and while the law is a little more
flexible in that regard, individual agencies may not
be.
"Anyone in the U.S. who disseminates or even possesses
child porn is subject to prosecution. Any therapist who
attempts to treat a pedophile -- even someone who admits
to fantasizing about engaging in sex with an under-aged
person -- is required by law to turn that client over to
the authorities, or risk arrest himself or herself."
I've looked all over the web and can't find a single
reference to any law that exists to that effect. In fact,
I've found several sites that say that unless a patient has
admitted to ACTUAL sexual contact, there is NO need to
report that patient, and confidentiality is protected.
Not calling you as liar, per se, but if you personally have
links to that information, I would appreciate it.
Otherwise, I might suggest that you view Rind's documents
with a bit more skepticism.
I don't have it, other than Rind's claim. As for Rind, as he
*is* a psychologist, I figured what he wrote is accurate.

There indeed might be some legal confusion about this.
"Newshould" (where is he/she now?) posted a while back a
Salon article entitled "Why I need to look at child
pornography" which talked about the press's need to look at
child porn in order to verify what governmental officialdom
and self-appointed defenders of children say--given the fact
that much of what they've told us, once someone *did* check
their "facts", was found out to be completely untrue
(organized crime child sex rings, satanist child sex rings,
the trade in child porn is worth more than the *entire adult
porn industry*, etc. etc. etc.). Salon pulled the article
after belatedly "discovering" that investigators can indeed
qualify under Federal Law to get permission to look at child
pornography.

However, I'm not so easily dissuaded. You see, the author
of the Salon article had consulted her superior's lawyers on
the law, and was going on *their* recommendations and
interpretations; she wasn't just basing her article on her
own knowledge of the law. So at least *some competent* people
interpreted Federal law as being far more stringent than
Salon.

My point? Even if the law does not in fact require a
therapist to turn your name over to the authorities for the
mere admitting to fantasies of sex with children, your
therapist, or his/her superiors, or their lawyers, might
interpret the law as requiring just that. Or in the case of
ambiguity, a lawyer might tell the therapist that there were
less legal jeopardy in a policy of reporting every such
confession as opposed to not reporting them. In fact, I
almost would expect such advice ("Screw the patient's
interest, cover your own legal butt!"). The only way to
prevent this is to have clear, unambiguous, language in the
law that *prohibits* such disclosures of what a patient tells
a therapist during therapy. I don't see why we can't, heck,
when I was in the hospital the nurses and doctors could not
disclose anything about the physical ailments of the patients
right next door without putting themselves in legal
jeopardy.

As such, I do not believe that admitting this is wise in
the US and other places. I have a poor opinion of psychiatry
anyways, it seems that the standard for being qualified to
give therapy, if nothing else, is a low one. (How else can
you have "Bible-based psychiatrists" advertising?).

If I were to go talk to someone about my own feelings, in
person, I'd do so to a pastor or priest, because I think that
what you tell them is still protected from disclosure.
(Someone please correct me if I'm wrong about this).
Post by Baal
Post by Secret Squirrel
Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the
authorities? How would you tell?
AFAIK, therapists have to warn their patients about legal
issues such as that . . . mine does. A group-mate admitted
to sneaking around outside of an ex's house with a knife -
the doc said he was under a moral and legal responsibility
to report him to the authorities. And he did. My
group-mate was then moved to another group and was arrested
for stalking.
That would be good, though I think that this is a relatively
recent development. I recall a local talk-radio show long ago
where a man was arrested after a psychiatrist disclosed the
fact that he was having sex with kids. Surprisingly, many of
the callers were angry about this, because the man had
approached the therapist in order to seek help in stopping
his behavior, and they saw the arrest as a disincentive to
any who were seeking similar help. The public is smarter than
we give them credit for sometimes.

Secret Squirrel
4s00th
2007-01-03 03:47:58 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 02:07:58 +0100, Secret Squirrel
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
Post by Baal
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing
with his sexual attraction towards children and accordingly
seeks professional help. Let's assume that Joe has no prior
convictions, nor anything else in his background that would
indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins
seeing a therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The
therapist may be required by law to report Joe depending on
what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported, Joe's
name will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some
sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know of
any law in the US, or at least the state I worked in, that
required anyone to report anything about someone's feelings
unless they started to affect behavior. Psychologists,
Social Workers, Counselors, Medical Doctors including
Shrinks and Teachers are required by law to report any
suspicions of child abuse or neglect to Social Services,
the sole authority for investigating complaints of abuse
and neglect, though we used to ask the State Troopers or
Countie Mounties for an assist in cases of excessive
violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should do
nothing more than cause a notation in your chart. Telling
your shrink you've had some kind of sexual contact with a
child -- that has to be reported, although without some
details regarding the identity of the child, it probably
wouldn't matter. I hate to say it, but Social Services is
full of red tape, too -- and they are very strict about
what they can and cannot investigate. Hearing that some
child may have been molested doesn't do it. Then there's
the issue of jurisdiction, and while the law is a little
more flexible in that regard, individual agencies may not
be.
"Anyone in the U.S. who disseminates or even possesses child
porn is subject to prosecution. Any therapist who attempts to
treat a pedophile -- even someone who admits to fantasizing
about engaging in sex with an under-aged person -- is
required by law to turn that client over to the authorities,
or risk arrest himself or herself."
Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the authorities?
How would you tell?
Secret Squirrel
I would very much like to see his documentation in this area.

I have just spent quite a bit of time reviewing the ethics as they
apply to psychiatry on the APA website. Although ethics do allow for
release of information when legally compelled to do so, the only two
instances in which it is ethical to release any information without
consent is when: 1) child abuse or neglect is suspected; 2) under
Tarasoft, the patient appears to be a threat to himself or the
community as evidenced by stating intentions to harm someone, and even
then, unless the patient names specific potential victims, then the
doctor or agency may not have any responsibility to warn as there
isn't anyone to warn.

I will also cite http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-09-04/analyst.html , in
which a supervisor for a psychatric program is being sued because in
the course of his work with a student of the program, he discovered
that the student had pedophilic fantasies. The supervisor took
apropriate steps, the student left the program but later did become a
child psychiatrist and was arrested for molesting two children in a
hospital/residential treatment setting. So far, the APA and all legal
advisors are supporting the supervisor's decision, specifically since
the laws of the state involved (Connecticut) do not require reporting
when there is no readily indentifiable class of victims (based on a
decision by Connecticut Supreme Court).

As to Baal's information, I believe that he clearly stated that it was
based on Canadian law, not US Law. Furthermore, in the case he
presented, the person did not go to a shrink and say, "I'm a
pedophile," he was accused of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl.

4s00th
Secret Squirrel
2007-01-07 14:38:52 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Post by 4s00th
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 02:07:58 +0100, Secret Squirrel
Post by Secret Squirrel
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
Post by Baal
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble
dealing with his sexual attraction towards children and
accordingly seeks professional help. Let's assume that
Joe has no prior convictions, nor anything else in his
background that would indicate his sexual predilections.
As soon as Joe begins seeing a therapist, then his
problems *really* begin. The therapist may be required by
law to report Joe depending on what Joe reveals to the
therapist. Once reported, Joe's name will almost
certainly be added to a watch-list of some sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know of
any law in the US, or at least the state I worked in,
that required anyone to report anything about someone's
feelings unless they started to affect behavior.
Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical
Doctors including Shrinks and Teachers are required by
law to report any suspicions of child abuse or neglect to
Social Services, the sole authority for investigating
complaints of abuse and neglect, though we used to ask
the State Troopers or Countie Mounties for an assist in
cases of excessive violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should
do nothing more than cause a notation in your chart.
Telling your shrink you've had some kind of sexual
contact with a child -- that has to be reported, although
without some details regarding the identity of the child,
it probably wouldn't matter. I hate to say it, but Social
Services is full of red tape, too -- and they are very
strict about what they can and cannot investigate.
Hearing that some child may have been molested doesn't do
it. Then there's the issue of jurisdiction, and while the
law is a little more flexible in that regard, individual
agencies may not be.
"Anyone in the U.S. who disseminates or even possesses
child porn is subject to prosecution. Any therapist who
attempts to treat a pedophile -- even someone who admits to
fantasizing about engaging in sex with an under-aged person
-- is required by law to turn that client over to the
authorities, or risk arrest himself or herself."
Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the
authorities? How would you tell?
I would very much like to see his documentation in this
area.
I have just spent quite a bit of time reviewing the ethics
as they apply to psychiatry on the APA website. Although
ethics do allow for release of information when legally
compelled to do so, the only two instances in which it is
1) child abuse or neglect is suspected; 2) under Tarasoft,
the patient appears to be a threat to himself or the
community as evidenced by stating intentions to harm
someone, and even then, unless the patient names specific
potential victims, then the doctor or agency may not have
any responsibility to warn as there isn't anyone to warn.
OK, let's say someone says he (or she) is attracted to
"children". Let's say also that he/she has a crush, or
expresses a liking, or says is cute, one specific youngster
(without saying that he/she's actually *done* anything sexual
with the kid).

Do you not see the ambiguity? There is no admission of
criminal activity, but at least some might interpret a
statement of "the neighbor's boy Jonny sure looks cute and I
admit that I have fantasized about sex with him" to be
reasonable grounds that Jonny is "in danger" and the
patient is "a threat" to him.

What about the person who who fantasizes about going on a
killing spree, a la James Huberty, killing people he doesn't
know? Is that someone who should be reported under these
ethics? Or would the fact that no identifiable victims or
class of victims are present prohibit it?

I can tell you how most lawyers I've known would answer: if
in doubt, report it. Your potential legal liabilities are
probably less if you report than if you don't.
Post by 4s00th
I will also cite
http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-09-04/analyst.html , in which
a supervisor for a psychatric program is being sued because
in the course of his work with a student of the program, he
discovered that the student had pedophilic fantasies. The
supervisor took apropriate steps, the student left the
program but later did become a child psychiatrist and was
arrested for molesting two children in a
hospital/residential treatment setting. So far, the APA and
all legal advisors are supporting the supervisor's
decision, specifically since the laws of the state involved
(Connecticut) do not require reporting when there is no
readily indentifiable class of victims (based on a decision
by Connecticut Supreme Court).
I'll look at this link.

Secret Squirrel
4s00th
2007-01-03 04:54:37 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 03 Jan 2007 02:07:58 +0100, Secret Squirrel
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Post by 4s00th
On Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:54:28 +0100 (CET), Baal
Post by Baal
Let's assume for a moment that Joe Blow has trouble dealing
with his sexual attraction towards children and accordingly
seeks professional help. Let's assume that Joe has no prior
convictions, nor anything else in his background that would
indicate his sexual predilections. As soon as Joe begins
seeing a therapist, then his problems *really* begin. The
therapist may be required by law to report Joe depending on
what Joe reveals to the therapist. Once reported, Joe's
name will almost certainly be added to a watch-list of some
sort.
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know of
any law in the US, or at least the state I worked in, that
required anyone to report anything about someone's feelings
unless they started to affect behavior. Psychologists,
Social Workers, Counselors, Medical Doctors including
Shrinks and Teachers are required by law to report any
suspicions of child abuse or neglect to Social Services,
the sole authority for investigating complaints of abuse
and neglect, though we used to ask the State Troopers or
Countie Mounties for an assist in cases of excessive
violence or possible sexual abuse.
Telling your shrink you're a pedophile in the US should do
nothing more than cause a notation in your chart. Telling
your shrink you've had some kind of sexual contact with a
child -- that has to be reported, although without some
details regarding the identity of the child, it probably
wouldn't matter. I hate to say it, but Social Services is
full of red tape, too -- and they are very strict about
what they can and cannot investigate. Hearing that some
child may have been molested doesn't do it. Then there's
the issue of jurisdiction, and while the law is a little
more flexible in that regard, individual agencies may not
be.
"Anyone in the U.S. who disseminates or even possesses child
porn is subject to prosecution. Any therapist who attempts to
treat a pedophile -- even someone who admits to fantasizing
about engaging in sex with an under-aged person -- is
required by law to turn that client over to the authorities,
or risk arrest himself or herself."
Are you *sure* your name was not turned over to the authorities?
How would you tell?
Secret Squirrel
Oh, and to tell the truth, if the authorites are aware of me, it's
likely that they are do to my activities on this newsgroup. I'm
certain that someone has a file with my real name and the different
names I've posted under -- and probably the notation: "harmless
crank."

4s00th
Baal
2007-01-05 23:18:27 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 02 Jan 2007 22:47:58 -0500, in Message-ID:
<***@4ax.com>, 4s00th <***@thetruth.com>
wrote:

[snip]
I would very much like to see his [Rind's] documentation in this area.
As would I, actually.
I have just spent quite a bit of time reviewing the ethics as they
apply to psychiatry on the APA website. Although ethics do allow for
release of information when legally compelled to do so, the only two
instances in which it is ethical to release any information without
consent is when: 1) child abuse or neglect is suspected; 2) under
Tarasoft, the patient appears to be a threat to himself or the
community as evidenced by stating intentions to harm someone, and even
then, unless the patient names specific potential victims, then the
doctor or agency may not have any responsibility to warn as there
isn't anyone to warn.
I will also cite http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-09-04/analyst.html , in
which a supervisor for a psychatric program is being sued because in
the course of his work with a student of the program, he discovered
that the student had pedophilic fantasies. The supervisor took
apropriate steps, the student left the program but later did become a
child psychiatrist and was arrested for molesting two children in a
hospital/residential treatment setting. So far, the APA and all legal
advisors are supporting the supervisor's decision, specifically since
the laws of the state involved (Connecticut) do not require reporting
when there is no readily indentifiable class of victims (based on a
decision by Connecticut Supreme Court).
Thank you for that link. I've already skimmed it; it looks quite interesting.
As to Baal's information, I believe that he clearly stated that it was
based on Canadian law, not US Law. Furthermore, in the case he
presented, the person did not go to a shrink and say, "I'm a
pedophile," he was accused of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl.
The Nagler case is not directly applicable; I fully realize that. The point I
was trying to make with the Nagler case was just how ridiculously easy it is to
get one's name on a watch-list, even without so much a shred of evidence.

I just remembered a case that is, perhaps, even more apropos: the case of Wanda
Young. In a nutshell, Ms. Young was a young, aspiring social worker who wanted
to do nothing more than work with abused kids. As is not uncommon, she made an
error in a paper she wrote--forgetting to footnote/cite a case study.

Her Memorial U professor, reading this, decided without consulting Ms. Young,
that this case study was autobiographical in nature, and contacted both the
RCMP and social services. As a result, Ms. Young '... was red-flagged and her
name was on a registry within the ministry as a suspected child abuser.'

Ms. Young was repeatedly passed-over for promotion due to the fact that her name
was red-flagged on this register; she discovered this only years after the fact.


http://tinyurl.com/vw62d

W-FIVE Staff

Updated: Sat. Feb. 11 2006 7:14 PM ET

In 1992, Wanda Young was a student at Memorial University in St.
John's, Newfoundland. Wanda had always wanted to be a social worker
and help abused children. She had been going part time to Memorial
and wanted to be accepted into full time studies in [the] Social Work
Department.

It was a big dream for a girl from Spaniard's Bay, a small out port
about eighty-five kilometers from St. John's. Her father Gordon
Young is a cabinetmaker and her mother Barbara once worked in the
local fish plant. Wanda is the middle child in this large close-knit
family and ever since she was small she had one thing in mind --
to become a social worker. When she told her father she intended to
pursue her dream, he wasn't surprised. "She was cut from that cloth,
says Gordon, "that's what she wanted to be."

For Wanda, being a social worker was more than just a career --
it was her vocation. "I just felt in my heart and soul that I had
something that I could do for these kids. I don't know, I just
wanted to help them out in any way I could." recalls Wanda.

In 1994, after four years of university courses, her marks were
slightly below the admission rate of 65 per cent and the competition
for placement was high -- she didn't get in. So she went to the
head of admissions and asked her what she should do. Her advice
floored Wanda. "It was at this point where she told me that they
didn't think I had what it takes to be a social worker. And if I
wanted to pursue a career in social work she would have to ask me to
go elsewhere." But there was nowhere else in the province for Wanda
to go. Hurt and confused she left the meeting in tears -- and left
behind her dream of a career in social work for good.

What Wanda didn't know was the university falsely suspected her of
sexually abusing children.

Wanda had written a twelve-page term paper about juvenile sex
offenders. The last two pages contained an appendix entitled "Case
Study", a graphic and lurid account written by an actual teenage sex
offender who would molest the children she babysat. Wanda had taken
it word- for- word from a textbook, but she had forgotten to add a
footnote.

She had written the paper for a long distance course taught by
a social work professor, who was away on a research project in
Labrador. The teacher was Professor Leslie Bella. When she read the
appendix to Wanda Young's paper, alarm bells rang. She thought Wanda
was writing about her own life. "There was attached to the paper was
a first-person confession to being a child sexual abuser written
by a young woman who was abusing her children in her care, says
Professor Bella, "there was no reference, no citation indicating
where it was taken from."

Professor Bella felt the suspected confession could well be a cry
for help from Wanda. So she consulted her director, Professor
Bill Rowe. Professor Rowe is a leading expert on child abuse. He
contacted Newfoundland's Child Protection Services to warn them
about Wanda Young. He then wrote a letter suggesting the RCMP
investigate. But he didn't send the entire 12 pages -- he only
attached the alarming Case Study, which read like a confession.

But nobody from the RCMP or Newfoundland's Child Protection Services
called Wanda. And when Professor Bella contacted her, it was on
an entirely different subject. Professor Bella called Wanda and
suggested that she had self-plagiarized the paper. Wanda had
actually written the paper for another course and naively had
submitted it to Professor Bella's class. The professor gave her a
zero and she failed the course.

Wanda thought this was the end of the story. But it wasn't -- based
on the false suspicions Social Services now had a file on Wanda as a
potential child molester. And from 1994 to 1996, that file traveled
around Conception Bay to a half dozen out port community welfare
offices. From Carbonner to St. John's more than twenty different
social workers were handed the file on Wanda. A file that Wanda
never knew existed. Even when the RCMP in Bay Roberts got the file --
just five minutes away from her family home. But while everyone else
talked -- nobody called Wanda.

It wasn't until about two years later that Wanda had any idea of
what had happened. She and her partner Roy received a call from
the Child Protection unit in St. John's. They asked Roy to come in
to discuss a matter concerning Wanda and his two young children he
had from his former marriage. Roy and Wanda raced into the social
services office and were confronted with the Case Study. The social
worker asked him if he had any reason to believe that Wanda was
sexually abusing his children. The social worker placed the Case
Study in front of him and quickly he and Wanda sorted out the
confusion. Wanda went home, found the term paper and showed it to
the social worker.

Within twenty-four hours, Newfoundland's Child Protection Services
sent her a letter clearing her of their suspicions.

Wanda thought this disturbing episode in her life was finally
over, but it was just beginning. She and Roy thought it was
appropriate for Memorial University to issue an apology but they
refused. Explains Professor Bella: "In a situation where there's
a possibility of child sexual abuse, you have to be extremely
careful not to put the children in danger by doing the investigation
yourself while it's happening."

So what should the professor have done? We asked Andrew Caddigan, a
front line social worker with almost thirty years experience with
young offenders. Says Caddigan:

"You'd have to be a moron to make some of these decisions I mean
before you make any statement to anyone concerning the idea that
this person could be a threat to children, you investigate it. Then
investigate it again and then investigate it again."

But Memorial University stood firm and believed that professor Bella
and Rowe did no wrong. Wanda Young met with the university on five
occasions asking for an official apology but they refused to give
her one.

So Wanda went on to work in a series of low paying part time social
work positions -- as a caseworker and as a guard at a juvenile
detention centre. It was tough work and she received good feedback
from her superiors like Andrew Caddigan but never was able to move
up into more senior positions.

And one day while working at the Confederation government building
in St. John's Andrew Caddigan overhead a group of people discussing
who would be good for a promotion and heard Wanda's name come up. "I
heard one of the workers say -- but Wanda has been red-flagged."

Six years after meeting with the social worker whom she thought had
cleared her name, Wanda found out through Andrew Caddigan that she
was red-flagged and her name was on a registry within the ministry
as a suspected child abuser.

A teary-eyed Wanda recalls: "Basically my resume got passed over
because I was red flagged as an alleged sex offender. I was very
angry.

And she understood now why her career was being held back. And
a simple mistake made eight years earlier was causing a major
disruption in her life.

In 2002, Wanda Young sued Memorial University. In October 2003 her
case went to court in St. John's. After a three-week trial that
made headlines in Newfoundland, the six-person jury found Memorial
University, Professor Bella and William Rowe negligent and granted
Wanda a damage award of over $800,000.

Wanda had her day in court and finally felt vindicated. But her
nightmare was far from over. Memorial University appealed the
case and won. Wanda had received about $300,000 of the $800,000
award, but had to pay it back. It was a devastating. "I still can't
understand how somebody can take that away," says Wanda, "I can't
believe somebody's letting them off for what they did. I makes no
sense that they can do this to an individual and get off with it."

Wanda had one last chance to reverse the appeal court's decision.
She took her case to the highest court in the land, the Supreme
Court of Canada. At best, it was a long shot. The Supreme Court of
Canada receives hundreds of applications and accepts about thirteen
percent of the cases.

But in October 2005 they heard Wanda's case and in January 2006
made a decision. It was unanimous - all seven Supreme Court judges
sided with Wanda Young. They dismissed all of Memorial University's
arguments and upheld the original jury's verdict.

It was a big moment for Wanda, her family and her lawyer Gillian
Butler. W-FIVE caught up with Wanda and her family at her lawyer
Gillian Butler's office in St. John's. They were ecstatic about the
ruling but Gillian Butler thinks there are larger issues for the
rest of the country.

"The most profound one is you cannot make a report without a
foundation. You cannot make an unjustifiable report because the
consequences to an individual who was totally innocent are too
significant," says Butler.

But not everyone agrees. Peter Dudding of the Child Welfare League
of Canada thinks this case will have a negative effect on child
welfare reporting practices across the country.

I'm worried about the family doctor, the school teacher, perhaps the
police officer, those people who are dealing a lot with children,
who may not be quite as well informed around their responsibities
are and maybe worried about what their liabilities might look like,"
Dudding told W-FIVE's Victor Malarek in an interview.

Gillian Butler disagrees. "The Supreme Court of Canada says the
university had no information. This ruling doesn't affect a case
[w]hen people truly have information that a child is in need of
protection. One, there was no child. Two, there was no information.
End of story."

W-FIVE asked Memorial University for an interview but they didn't
return our telephone calls. They did issue a press release saying
they accept the Supreme Court decision and have promised to write
Wanda a letter of apology.

And after all, that's all Wanda really wanted in the first place.
4s00th
Baal
Retired Lecturer, Encryption and Data Security, Pedo U, Usenet Campus

"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD
Wonderer
2007-01-06 00:01:48 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
[snip]
I would very much like to see his [Rind's] documentation in this area.
As would I, actually.
freely available on the net, type in "rind report" or the names of each
researcher

Wonderer
I have just spent quite a bit of time reviewing the ethics as they
apply to psychiatry on the APA website. Although ethics do allow for
release of information when legally compelled to do so, the only two
instances in which it is ethical to release any information without
consent is when: 1) child abuse or neglect is suspected; 2) under
Tarasoft, the patient appears to be a threat to himself or the
community as evidenced by stating intentions to harm someone, and even
then, unless the patient names specific potential victims, then the
doctor or agency may not have any responsibility to warn as there
isn't anyone to warn.
I will also cite http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-09-04/analyst.html , in
which a supervisor for a psychatric program is being sued because in
the course of his work with a student of the program, he discovered
that the student had pedophilic fantasies. The supervisor took
apropriate steps, the student left the program but later did become a
child psychiatrist and was arrested for molesting two children in a
hospital/residential treatment setting. So far, the APA and all legal
advisors are supporting the supervisor's decision, specifically since
the laws of the state involved (Connecticut) do not require reporting
when there is no readily indentifiable class of victims (based on a
decision by Connecticut Supreme Court).
Thank you for that link. I've already skimmed it; it looks quite interesting.
As to Baal's information, I believe that he clearly stated that it was
based on Canadian law, not US Law. Furthermore, in the case he
presented, the person did not go to a shrink and say, "I'm a
pedophile," he was accused of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl.
The Nagler case is not directly applicable; I fully realize that. The point I
was trying to make with the Nagler case was just how ridiculously easy it is to
get one's name on a watch-list, even without so much a shred of evidence.
I just remembered a case that is, perhaps, even more apropos: the case of Wanda
Young. In a nutshell, Ms. Young was a young, aspiring social worker who wanted
to do nothing more than work with abused kids. As is not uncommon, she made an
error in a paper she wrote--forgetting to footnote/cite a case study.
Her Memorial U professor, reading this, decided without consulting Ms. Young,
that this case study was autobiographical in nature, and contacted both the
RCMP and social services. As a result, Ms. Young '... was red-flagged and her
name was on a registry within the ministry as a suspected child abuser.'
Ms. Young was repeatedly passed-over for promotion due to the fact that her name
was red-flagged on this register; she discovered this only years after the fact.
http://tinyurl.com/vw62d
W-FIVE Staff
Updated: Sat. Feb. 11 2006 7:14 PM ET
In 1992, Wanda Young was a student at Memorial University in St.
John's, Newfoundland. Wanda had always wanted to be a social worker
and help abused children. She had been going part time to Memorial
and wanted to be accepted into full time studies in [the] Social Work
Department.
It was a big dream for a girl from Spaniard's Bay, a small out port
about eighty-five kilometers from St. John's. Her father Gordon
Young is a cabinetmaker and her mother Barbara once worked in the
local fish plant. Wanda is the middle child in this large close-knit
family and ever since she was small she had one thing in mind --
to become a social worker. When she told her father she intended to
pursue her dream, he wasn't surprised. "She was cut from that cloth,
says Gordon, "that's what she wanted to be."
For Wanda, being a social worker was more than just a career --
it was her vocation. "I just felt in my heart and soul that I had
something that I could do for these kids. I don't know, I just
wanted to help them out in any way I could." recalls Wanda.
In 1994, after four years of university courses, her marks were
slightly below the admission rate of 65 per cent and the competition
for placement was high -- she didn't get in. So she went to the
head of admissions and asked her what she should do. Her advice
floored Wanda. "It was at this point where she told me that they
didn't think I had what it takes to be a social worker. And if I
wanted to pursue a career in social work she would have to ask me to
go elsewhere." But there was nowhere else in the province for Wanda
to go. Hurt and confused she left the meeting in tears -- and left
behind her dream of a career in social work for good.
What Wanda didn't know was the university falsely suspected her of
sexually abusing children.
Wanda had written a twelve-page term paper about juvenile sex
offenders. The last two pages contained an appendix entitled "Case
Study", a graphic and lurid account written by an actual teenage sex
offender who would molest the children she babysat. Wanda had taken
it word- for- word from a textbook, but she had forgotten to add a
footnote.
She had written the paper for a long distance course taught by
a social work professor, who was away on a research project in
Labrador. The teacher was Professor Leslie Bella. When she read the
appendix to Wanda Young's paper, alarm bells rang. She thought Wanda
was writing about her own life. "There was attached to the paper was
a first-person confession to being a child sexual abuser written
by a young woman who was abusing her children in her care, says
Professor Bella, "there was no reference, no citation indicating
where it was taken from."
Professor Bella felt the suspected confession could well be a cry
for help from Wanda. So she consulted her director, Professor
Bill Rowe. Professor Rowe is a leading expert on child abuse. He
contacted Newfoundland's Child Protection Services to warn them
about Wanda Young. He then wrote a letter suggesting the RCMP
investigate. But he didn't send the entire 12 pages -- he only
attached the alarming Case Study, which read like a confession.
But nobody from the RCMP or Newfoundland's Child Protection Services
called Wanda. And when Professor Bella contacted her, it was on
an entirely different subject. Professor Bella called Wanda and
suggested that she had self-plagiarized the paper. Wanda had
actually written the paper for another course and naively had
submitted it to Professor Bella's class. The professor gave her a
zero and she failed the course.
Wanda thought this was the end of the story. But it wasn't -- based
on the false suspicions Social Services now had a file on Wanda as a
potential child molester. And from 1994 to 1996, that file traveled
around Conception Bay to a half dozen out port community welfare
offices. From Carbonner to St. John's more than twenty different
social workers were handed the file on Wanda. A file that Wanda
never knew existed. Even when the RCMP in Bay Roberts got the file --
just five minutes away from her family home. But while everyone else
talked -- nobody called Wanda.
It wasn't until about two years later that Wanda had any idea of
what had happened. She and her partner Roy received a call from
the Child Protection unit in St. John's. They asked Roy to come in
to discuss a matter concerning Wanda and his two young children he
had from his former marriage. Roy and Wanda raced into the social
services office and were confronted with the Case Study. The social
worker asked him if he had any reason to believe that Wanda was
sexually abusing his children. The social worker placed the Case
Study in front of him and quickly he and Wanda sorted out the
confusion. Wanda went home, found the term paper and showed it to
the social worker.
Within twenty-four hours, Newfoundland's Child Protection Services
sent her a letter clearing her of their suspicions.
Wanda thought this disturbing episode in her life was finally
over, but it was just beginning. She and Roy thought it was
appropriate for Memorial University to issue an apology but they
refused. Explains Professor Bella: "In a situation where there's
a possibility of child sexual abuse, you have to be extremely
careful not to put the children in danger by doing the investigation
yourself while it's happening."
So what should the professor have done? We asked Andrew Caddigan, a
front line social worker with almost thirty years experience with
"You'd have to be a moron to make some of these decisions I mean
before you make any statement to anyone concerning the idea that
this person could be a threat to children, you investigate it. Then
investigate it again and then investigate it again."
But Memorial University stood firm and believed that professor Bella
and Rowe did no wrong. Wanda Young met with the university on five
occasions asking for an official apology but they refused to give
her one.
So Wanda went on to work in a series of low paying part time social
work positions -- as a caseworker and as a guard at a juvenile
detention centre. It was tough work and she received good feedback
from her superiors like Andrew Caddigan but never was able to move
up into more senior positions.
And one day while working at the Confederation government building
in St. John's Andrew Caddigan overhead a group of people discussing
who would be good for a promotion and heard Wanda's name come up. "I
heard one of the workers say -- but Wanda has been red-flagged."
Six years after meeting with the social worker whom she thought had
cleared her name, Wanda found out through Andrew Caddigan that she
was red-flagged and her name was on a registry within the ministry
as a suspected child abuser.
A teary-eyed Wanda recalls: "Basically my resume got passed over
because I was red flagged as an alleged sex offender. I was very
angry.
And she understood now why her career was being held back. And
a simple mistake made eight years earlier was causing a major
disruption in her life.
In 2002, Wanda Young sued Memorial University. In October 2003 her
case went to court in St. John's. After a three-week trial that
made headlines in Newfoundland, the six-person jury found Memorial
University, Professor Bella and William Rowe negligent and granted
Wanda a damage award of over $800,000.
Wanda had her day in court and finally felt vindicated. But her
nightmare was far from over. Memorial University appealed the
case and won. Wanda had received about $300,000 of the $800,000
award, but had to pay it back. It was a devastating. "I still can't
understand how somebody can take that away," says Wanda, "I can't
believe somebody's letting them off for what they did. I makes no
sense that they can do this to an individual and get off with it."
Wanda had one last chance to reverse the appeal court's decision.
She took her case to the highest court in the land, the Supreme
Court of Canada. At best, it was a long shot. The Supreme Court of
Canada receives hundreds of applications and accepts about thirteen
percent of the cases.
But in October 2005 they heard Wanda's case and in January 2006
made a decision. It was unanimous - all seven Supreme Court judges
sided with Wanda Young. They dismissed all of Memorial University's
arguments and upheld the original jury's verdict.
It was a big moment for Wanda, her family and her lawyer Gillian
Butler. W-FIVE caught up with Wanda and her family at her lawyer
Gillian Butler's office in St. John's. They were ecstatic about the
ruling but Gillian Butler thinks there are larger issues for the
rest of the country.
"The most profound one is you cannot make a report without a
foundation. You cannot make an unjustifiable report because the
consequences to an individual who was totally innocent are too
significant," says Butler.
But not everyone agrees. Peter Dudding of the Child Welfare League
of Canada thinks this case will have a negative effect on child
welfare reporting practices across the country.
I'm worried about the family doctor, the school teacher, perhaps the
police officer, those people who are dealing a lot with children,
who may not be quite as well informed around their responsibities
are and maybe worried about what their liabilities might look like,"
Dudding told W-FIVE's Victor Malarek in an interview.
Gillian Butler disagrees. "The Supreme Court of Canada says the
university had no information. This ruling doesn't affect a case
[w]hen people truly have information that a child is in need of
protection. One, there was no child. Two, there was no information.
End of story."
W-FIVE asked Memorial University for an interview but they didn't
return our telephone calls. They did issue a press release saying
they accept the Supreme Court decision and have promised to write
Wanda a letter of apology.
And after all, that's all Wanda really wanted in the first place.
4s00th
Baal
Retired Lecturer, Encryption and Data Security, Pedo U, Usenet Campus
"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD
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Laurence Taylor
2007-01-04 12:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
As a former Social Worker, I can say that I don't know of any law in
the US, or at least the state I worked in, that required anyone to
report anything about someone's feelings unless they started to affect
behavior. Psychologists, Social Workers, Counselors, Medical Doctors
including Shrinks and Teachers are required by law to report any
suspicions of child abuse or neglect to Social Services, the sole
authority for investigating complaints of abuse and neglect, though we
used to ask the State Troopers or Countie Mounties for an assist in
cases of excessive violence or possible sexual abuse.
I gather that the more intelligent therapists will tell their clients
how to phrase things so that the therapist can't have anything to report.

Of course, while commendable, that does go to show up the absurdity of
the ruling.
--
rgds
LAurence

...That's odd -- I had a tagline when I came in here...
---*TagZilla 0.059* http://tagzilla.mozdev.org
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-31 12:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
--
Max Grrl
Sorry. I just thought of something.
It sounds like you're saying that, because of these external influences
"encouraging" you, you are unable to control your behavior. You'll
never solve the behavioral problems that way. Because it's *your*
problem. There'll just be another thing that causes you to loose
control.

Near the top of this thread, you threatened me. Are you going to stop
everybody from sticking up for a constitutional right that they believe
in? Whether you believe it or not, that's *all* I'm doing.

That's the problem with the approach you're taking. There'll *always*
be something else to set these guys off.
cut2open
Max Grrl
2007-01-01 00:59:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
--
Max Grrl
Sorry. I just thought of something.
It sounds like you're saying that, because of these external influences
"encouraging" you, you are unable to control your behavior.
No, I'm saying it makes it THAT much harder. I actually control myself
quite well, LOL. Am still free, still on the streets. : )
Post by b***@yahoo.com
You'll
never solve the behavioral problems that way. Because it's *your*
problem. There'll just be another thing that causes you to loose
control.
Of course there will be . . . wasn't my point. See below.
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Near the top of this thread, you threatened me. Are you going to stop
everybody from sticking up for a constitutional right that they believe
in? Whether you believe it or not, that's *all* I'm doing.
I threatened you AFTER you insulted me. Kinda how things are done on
usenet, AFAIK. : )
Post by b***@yahoo.com
That's the problem with the approach you're taking. There'll *always*
be something else to set these guys off.
No, you missed my point entirely. The issue I have with Frankie is not
whether or not he has a RIGHT to write his shit - but he has a moral
responsibility NOT to. Let me see if I can explain this better . . .

Okay, I STRIVE every day to control my urges, right? Yes, I know you'll
have to take me at my word on that one, LOL . . . I KNOW how hard it is
to keep control - to deny urges that are damn nigh addictions. It's a
real fucking BITCH. BUT I DO it. And in doing it, I avoid shit like
violent pr0n. I avoid murder flicks - anything that might "set me off."

I make that sacrifice to keep others safe from ME. If I indulged, who
knows what could happen?? I could honestly very well murder someone . .
. Let's use your pyromaniac reference, shall we? If YOU were a pyro,
would you play with matches? Why not? Because it would lead you further
into temptation and increase the possibility that someone would be hurt
on account of it, right?

At least, as someone who deals with dangerous urges, that's my take on
it. It sucks not to indulge my . . . whims . . . but it's for the
best of all involved.

And take a look-see at some of my posts - you'll see that I respect
EVERYONE'S rights under the US Constitution - I even support pedos who
DON'T give in to their urges (like 4s00th) . . . but you don't see
4s00th purposefully treading close to the line of danger, now do you?
Whilst I don't seek to deprive Frankie of his rights, I DO criticize
him for his lack of moral responsibility and his lack of "safety."
Post by b***@yahoo.com
cut2open
And BTW, threats is kinda, what with my problem and all, how I roll. : )
--
Max Grrl
b***@yahoo.com
2007-01-01 08:24:09 UTC
Permalink
____________________________________________
____________________________________________
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Near the top of this thread, you threatened me. Are you going to stop
everybody from sticking up for a constitutional right that they believe
in? Whether you believe it or not, that's *all* I'm doing.
I threatened you AFTER you insulted me. Kinda how things are done on
usenet, AFAIK. : )
Know what?-- I'm sorry, I apologize.---- I'm absolutely serious.
I think it's pretty admirable that you control your proclevities to the
extent you say you do. Sorry this sounds kind of like a left handed
compliment with all the qualifiers in that sentence (eg. "to the extent
you say you do"), but it is the internet after all.
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
I have some "deviant behaviors" that I struggle to control. So far,
I've been able to keep a lid on them. I'm not going to go into detail,
but they involve children.

I know you can't really compare things like this. It's like trying to
compare whose skinned knee hurts the worst.

Geeze, I think we're starting to sound like a support group.(lol)
Post by Max Grrl
Okay, I STRIVE every day to control my urges, right? Yes, I know you'll
have to take me at my word on that one, LOL . . . I KNOW how hard it is
to keep control - to deny urges that are damn nigh addictions. It's a
real fucking BITCH. BUT I DO it. And in doing it, I avoid shit like
violent pr0n. I avoid murder flicks - anything that might "set me off."
So it sounds like you've got a grip on your problem, maybe a somewhat
tenuous grip, but you're doing it.
Post by Max Grrl
And take a look-see at some of my posts - you'll see that I respect
EVERYONE'S rights under the US Constitution - I even support pedos who
DON'T give in to their urges (like 4s00th) . . . but you don't see
4s00th purposefully treading close to the line of danger, now do you?
I can see your point there (moral responsibilty), I mean I follow your
thinking, not that I agree with it. But I think we have a right to be
morally irresponsible. We have a library chock full of laws to stop
people when they go too far.
Agreeing to a person's rights, but trying to prevent him from
exercising them, is the same as trying to deny him those rights. kind
of like--- "I agree with your right to look at porn. But I'm going to
kick your ass everytime I catch you doing it."
It's just an intellectual exercise. There's no conviction behind the
acknowlgement to the person's rights.

What's that guy's name that publicly protests homosexuality at
funerals? He's somekind of self styled preacher, has his own church and
all of that? Dobson, or is that someone else? He's the guy that
protests at the funerals of soldiers brought back from Iraq.

His argument is--- Yes they do have a right to be homosexuals. It's not
illegal.... And I have a right to protest it, also guarnteed by the
constitution.

I guess he's right, but there's something really wrong there. That's my
take on it anyway.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Near the top of this thread, you threatened me. Are you going to stop
everybody from sticking up for a constitutional right that they believe
in? Whether you believe it or not, that's *all* I'm doing.
I threatened you AFTER you insulted me. Kinda how things are done on
usenet, AFAIK. : )
Know what?-- I'm sorry, I apologize.---- I'm absolutely serious.
I think it's pretty admirable that you control your proclevities to the
extent you say you do. Sorry this sounds kind of like a left handed
compliment with all the qualifiers in that sentence (eg. "to the extent
you say you do"), but it is the internet after all.
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
I have some "deviant behaviors" that I struggle to control. So far,
I've been able to keep a lid on them. I'm not going to go into detail,
but they involve children.

I know you can't really compare things like this. It's like trying to
compare whose skinned knee hurts the worst.

Geeze, I think we're starting to sound like a support group.(lol)
Post by Max Grrl
Okay, I STRIVE every day to control my urges, right? Yes, I know you'll
have to take me at my word on that one, LOL . . . I KNOW how hard it is
to keep control - to deny urges that are damn nigh addictions. It's a
real fucking BITCH. BUT I DO it. And in doing it, I avoid shit like
violent pr0n. I avoid murder flicks - anything that might "set me off."
So it sounds like you've got a grip on your problem, maybe a somewhat
tenuous grip, but you're doing it.
Post by Max Grrl
And take a look-see at some of my posts - you'll see that I respect
EVERYONE'S rights under the US Constitution - I even support pedos who
DON'T give in to their urges (like 4s00th) . . . but you don't see
4s00th purposefully treading close to the line of danger, now do you?
I can see your point there (moral responsibilty), I mean I follow your
thinking, not that I agree with it. But I think we have a right to be
morally irresponsible. We have a library chock full of laws to stop
people when they go too far.
Agreeing to a person's rights, but trying to prevent him from
exercising them, is the same as trying to deny him those rights. kind
of like--- "I agree with your right to look at porn. But I'm going to
kick your ass everytime I catch you doing it."
It's just an intellectual exercise. There's no conviction behind the
acknowlgement to the person's rights.

What's that guy's name that publicly protests homosexuality at
funerals? He's somekind of self styled preacher, has his own church and
all of that? Dobson, or is that someone else? He's the guy that
protests at the funerals of soldiers brought back from Iraq.

His argument is--- Yes they do have a right to be homosexuals. It's not
illegal.... And I have a right to protest it, also guarnteed by the
constitution.

I guess he's right, but there's something really wrong there. That's my
take on it anyway.




But I haven't read your posts. So I guess I'll take you up on your
invitation to read some of them. The best to you-- cut2open
Max Grrl
2007-01-01 09:52:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
____________________________________________
____________________________________________
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Near the top of this thread, you threatened me. Are you going to stop
everybody from sticking up for a constitutional right that they believe
in? Whether you believe it or not, that's *all* I'm doing.
I threatened you AFTER you insulted me. Kinda how things are done on
usenet, AFAIK. : )
Know what?-- I'm sorry, I apologize.---- I'm absolutely serious.
I think it's pretty admirable that you control your proclevities to the
extent you say you do. Sorry this sounds kind of like a left handed
compliment with all the qualifiers in that sentence (eg. "to the extent
you say you do"), but it is the internet after all.
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
I have some "deviant behaviors" that I struggle to control. So far,
I've been able to keep a lid on them. I'm not going to go into detail,
but they involve children.
I know you can't really compare things like this. It's like trying to
compare whose skinned knee hurts the worst.
Geeze, I think we're starting to sound like a support group.(lol)
Post by Max Grrl
Okay, I STRIVE every day to control my urges, right? Yes, I know you'll
have to take me at my word on that one, LOL . . . I KNOW how hard it is
to keep control - to deny urges that are damn nigh addictions. It's a
real fucking BITCH. BUT I DO it. And in doing it, I avoid shit like
violent pr0n. I avoid murder flicks - anything that might "set me off."
So it sounds like you've got a grip on your problem, maybe a somewhat
tenuous grip, but you're doing it.
Post by Max Grrl
And take a look-see at some of my posts - you'll see that I respect
EVERYONE'S rights under the US Constitution - I even support pedos who
DON'T give in to their urges (like 4s00th) . . . but you don't see
4s00th purposefully treading close to the line of danger, now do you?
I can see your point there (moral responsibilty), I mean I follow your
thinking, not that I agree with it. But I think we have a right to be
morally irresponsible. We have a library chock full of laws to stop
people when they go too far.
Agreeing to a person's rights, but trying to prevent him from
exercising them, is the same as trying to deny him those rights. kind
of like--- "I agree with your right to look at porn. But I'm going to
kick your ass everytime I catch you doing it."
It's just an intellectual exercise. There's no conviction behind the
acknowlgement to the person's rights.
What's that guy's name that publicly protests homosexuality at
funerals? He's somekind of self styled preacher, has his own church and
all of that? Dobson, or is that someone else? He's the guy that
protests at the funerals of soldiers brought back from Iraq.
His argument is--- Yes they do have a right to be homosexuals. It's not
illegal.... And I have a right to protest it, also guarnteed by the
constitution.
I guess he's right, but there's something really wrong there. That's my
take on it anyway.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Near the top of this thread, you threatened me. Are you going to stop
everybody from sticking up for a constitutional right that they believe
in? Whether you believe it or not, that's *all* I'm doing.
I threatened you AFTER you insulted me. Kinda how things are done on
usenet, AFAIK. : )
Know what?-- I'm sorry, I apologize.---- I'm absolutely serious.
I think it's pretty admirable that you control your proclevities to the
extent you say you do. Sorry this sounds kind of like a left handed
compliment with all the qualifiers in that sentence (eg. "to the extent
you say you do"), but it is the internet after all.
Post by Max Grrl
No, they don't involve a real vic, but I know (and yes, I really do)
that others of MY kind get off on stories of serial murder - made up
and REAL - and they often use them for . . . well . . . let's just
call them deviant behaviors, shall we?
I have some "deviant behaviors" that I struggle to control. So far,
I've been able to keep a lid on them. I'm not going to go into detail,
but they involve children.
I know you can't really compare things like this. It's like trying to
compare whose skinned knee hurts the worst.
Geeze, I think we're starting to sound like a support group.(lol)
Post by Max Grrl
Okay, I STRIVE every day to control my urges, right? Yes, I know you'll
have to take me at my word on that one, LOL . . . I KNOW how hard it is
to keep control - to deny urges that are damn nigh addictions. It's a
real fucking BITCH. BUT I DO it. And in doing it, I avoid shit like
violent pr0n. I avoid murder flicks - anything that might "set me off."
So it sounds like you've got a grip on your problem, maybe a somewhat
tenuous grip, but you're doing it.
Post by Max Grrl
And take a look-see at some of my posts - you'll see that I respect
EVERYONE'S rights under the US Constitution - I even support pedos who
DON'T give in to their urges (like 4s00th) . . . but you don't see
4s00th purposefully treading close to the line of danger, now do you?
I can see your point there (moral responsibilty), I mean I follow your
thinking, not that I agree with it. But I think we have a right to be
morally irresponsible. We have a library chock full of laws to stop
people when they go too far.
Agreeing to a person's rights, but trying to prevent him from
exercising them, is the same as trying to deny him those rights. kind
of like--- "I agree with your right to look at porn. But I'm going to
kick your ass everytime I catch you doing it."
It's just an intellectual exercise. There's no conviction behind the
acknowlgement to the person's rights.
I'm not kicking his ass so much as I'm looking down my nose upon him.
Because he's got a moral responsibility (and obviously, the right to
ignore it) to protect others from himself. It's sacrificing YOUR needs
for the welfare of others. And even someone like me, who really, down
deep, doesn't really give a shit about the welfare of others, can see
that doing so is for the better of all . . . To me, it's just as
essential as a doctor making sure that he doesn't go to work drunk or
high - or a policeman making sure that he doesn't immediately judge
some minority as a criminal for doing no more than walking down the
street . . .

But I feel that we all have the moral responsibility to make choices
that make the world a safer place to live . . . I don't think you
would want someone like me disregarding the safety and welfare of
others, would you? Would it be MY fault if I decided that people WERE
cattle and here specifically for my amusement?? Yes. It would. And I
would think that if presented a choice, the common person would prefer
that I have that responsibility and that I "use" it.
Post by b***@yahoo.com
What's that guy's name that publicly protests homosexuality at
funerals? He's somekind of self styled preacher, has his own church and
all of that? Dobson, or is that someone else? He's the guy that
protests at the funerals of soldiers brought back from Iraq.
His argument is--- Yes they do have a right to be homosexuals. It's not
illegal.... And I have a right to protest it, also guarnteed by the
constitution.
I have the right, as one "deviant" to another to be pissed because his
lack of control puts the entire community in danger. I have the right,
as a "deviant" who controls herself, to look down my nose on other
deviants who don't give enough of a shit about doing the "right thing"
to deny ones' self of a lil fun or excitement.
Post by b***@yahoo.com
I guess he's right, but there's something really wrong there. That's my
take on it anyway.
No, I don't think there's anything wrong with it - your (and everyone
else's) rights end where his nose begins. If you start to question HIS
right to protest, you question everyone's right to protest. Even the
worst people in the world have the right to protest - and the right to
live as they see fit, unless it's prohibited by law.

But protesting at funerals (and here we see the "moral responsibility
thing again) is just ten shades of fucked up.
Post by b***@yahoo.com
But I haven't read your posts. So I guess I'll take you up on your
invitation to read some of them. The best to you-- cut2open
Don't suppose you'd care to share why you have the nym you do? Just
curious . . .
--
Max Grrl
Baal
2007-01-01 13:30:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 18:59:29 -0600, in Message-ID:
<311220061859294166%***@gmail.com>, Max Grrl
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

In article <***@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>,
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Sorry. I just thought of something.
It sounds like you're saying that, because of these external influences
"encouraging" you, you are unable to control your behavior.
No, I'm saying it makes it THAT much harder. I actually control myself
quite well, LOL. Am still free, still on the streets. : )
That's a good thing. Most of what I know about jails is second- or even third-
hand, never having been there myself, but the decided consensus is that they are
*not* nice places to be.

[snip]
Post by Max Grrl
No, you missed my point entirely. The issue I have with Frankie is not
whether or not he has a RIGHT to write his shit
Frank is supremely lucky that he has the protection of the First Amendment; in
Canada, he would enjoy no such protection. As you may be aware, Canada's child
pornography laws include text that, and I'm paraphrasing:

"... advocates or counsels sexual activity with a person under the age of 18
years that would be an offence under this Act...."

My understanding is that these measures were put into place to prohibit the
importation of the NAMBLA newsletter. The long and the short of it is, that if
Frank were a Canadian, he'd have a criminal record (and possibly a prison term)
for writing his fictional stories. This has actually been judged by the Supreme
Court of Canada in R -v- Sharpe. Some of the text materials that Mr. Sharpe was
prosecuted for went by the title, "Sam Paloc's BOYABUSE: Flogging, Fun & Fortitude"

The court essentially held that the only way for Mr. Sharpe to legally possess
such materials would be if he never showed them to anyone else. Even this the
court did only reluctantly; otherwise they would have been the position of
criminalizing the mere possession of certain thoughts.

I suppose that I'm an atypical Canadian, being a free-speech absolutist; I was
(and am) against the laws that were used to prosecute Ernst Zundel and have him
deported back to Germany. (I have little love for the Heritage Front and similar
neo-Nazi organizations, but I disagree vehemently with banning their rights to
free speech.)
Post by Max Grrl
- but he has a moral responsibility NOT to. Let me see if I can explain this
better . . .
With all due respect, this is errant nonsense.

The argument seems to go like this: the mere existence of such materials will
fuel pedophile fantasies, potentially leading them to abuse children. This has
been judged to be so horrendous a prospect that the mere possession of such
materials has been criminalized. (The fact that this has never been proven seems
not to matter a whit--neither does it matter that such materials could be used
in a therapeutic setting.)
Post by Max Grrl
Okay, I STRIVE every day to control my urges, right? Yes, I know you'll
have to take me at my word on that one, LOL . . . I KNOW how hard it is
to keep control - to deny urges that are damn nigh addictions. It's a
real fucking BITCH. BUT I DO it. And in doing it, I avoid shit like
violent pr0n. I avoid murder flicks - anything that might "set me off."
Fine and good. You are taking personal responsibility. What's to stop someone
from exercising similar personal responsiblity and simply refraining from reading
Frank's stories? You're essentially calling for Frank to censor himself, and stop
writing stories, because they _might_ trigger certain people into committing
offences.

Why then, don't you similarly advocate for the elimination/criminalization of
say, murder mysteries, horror/crime movies, violent porn, and the like?
After all, there have been cases in which:

* A man murdered some of his neighbours using a method found in an Agatha
Christie murder mystery novel;

* Women were murdered in real life using a gruesome method used by a pimp to
kill one of his girls in a Dirty Harry movie;

* Some offenders have claimed (after apprehension) that their consumption of
pornography triggered their offence.

If a standard similar to that which is applied to child pornography were applied
across-the-board, murder mysteries, violent porn, and the like would be illegal,
and mere possession of these would be a criminal offence.

Essentially there is a double-standard operating here--you appear to be holding
Frank to a higher moral standard than the authors of murder mysteries, crime/
horror films and violent porno flicks.

Frank is no more at fault for the actions taken by those who read his stories,
than Agatha Christie was for the persons who used the murder methods outlined
in her novels, or the Dirty Harry movie script author was for the actions of
the persons that used that particular method shown in the Dirty Harry movie.
Post by Max Grrl
I make that sacrifice to keep others safe from ME. If I indulged, who
knows what could happen?? I could honestly very well murder someone . .
. Let's use your pyromaniac reference, shall we? If YOU were a pyro,
would you play with matches? Why not? Because it would lead you further
into temptation and increase the possibility that someone would be hurt
on account of it, right?
At least, as someone who deals with dangerous urges, that's my take on
it. It sucks not to indulge my . . . whims . . . but it's for the
best of all involved.
As I said earlier, fine and good. More power to you. However, by the same
token, I see you advocating for Frank to censor himself, but I _don't_ see you
advocating similar censorship of other potential triggering material. Why the
discrepancy?
Post by Max Grrl
And take a look-see at some of my posts - you'll see that I respect
EVERYONE'S rights under the US Constitution - I even support pedos who
DON'T give in to their urges (like 4s00th) . . . but you don't see
4s00th purposefully treading close to the line of danger, now do you?
Whilst I don't seek to deprive Frankie of his rights, I DO criticize
him for his lack of moral responsibility and his lack of "safety."
I believe you're making a false dichotomy here--you are implicitly saying that:

* Frank's stories are by their very nature, so corrupting that they must be
suppressed; and/or

* Persons with pedophilic tendencies are so malleable, so totally and
completely lacking in self-control that they cannot be trusted to control
themselves in the same way that _you_ manage to control yourself.

I believe that both these propositions are equally wrong-headed. It _is_
possible to remove oneself from temptation--you've stated that you do that
yourself. It is _not_ possible (nor reasonable) to re-make society so as to
remove all of the many and varied sources of temptation.

You cannot condemn Frank for being 'immoral' for writing his stories, while not
also condemning the authors of murder mysteries, horror/crime flicks and violent
porn flicks. (FWIW, violent porn flicks are also illegal in Canada.)

Finally, I would like to quote a presentation to the Canadian Minister of
Justice made in 1999:

.. What possible justification is there to criminalize any fictionalized
depictions? Some commentators have expressed the fear that exposure to
such material could predispose certain people to imitate the depicted
behaviour in real life. But, even if everything currently defined as
"child pornography" were to disappear from the face of the earth, there
is no reason to believe that children would be made significantly safer
from pedophiles. What would we expect pedophiles to do? Take up stamp
collecting? In any event, it is not sensible to attempt to sanitize our
whole society in this way because of the alleged impact on a few
disordered souls.... -- Canadian Civil Liberties Association letter
to the Canadian Minister of Justice, 1999


Baal
Retired Lecturer, Encryption and Data Security, Pedo U, Usenet Campus

"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD

[...] When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to
say to its subjects, 'this you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motive. -- If This Goes On, R.A. Heinlein

"To understand free speech means freedom to speak what others do not like
and even cannot stand to hear? ... Tolerating what you like is hardly a
major achievement. Hitler tolerated what he liked. So did Stalin. Idi Amin
did too. So did Genghis Khan, the Shah, and Henry Kissinger. Free speech
only becomes an issue when someone says what others don't want to hear."
-- Michael Albert
Max Grrl
2007-01-01 18:30:51 UTC
Permalink
In article
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Hash: SHA512
[snip]
Post by Max Grrl
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Sorry. I just thought of something.
It sounds like you're saying that, because of these external influences
"encouraging" you, you are unable to control your behavior.
No, I'm saying it makes it THAT much harder. I actually control myself
quite well, LOL. Am still free, still on the streets. : )
That's a good thing. Most of what I know about jails is second- or even third-
hand, never having been there myself, but the decided consensus is that they are
*not* nice places to be.
[snip]
Post by Max Grrl
No, you missed my point entirely. The issue I have with Frankie is not
whether or not he has a RIGHT to write his shit
Frank is supremely lucky that he has the protection of the First Amendment; in
Canada, he would enjoy no such protection. As you may be aware, Canada's child
"... advocates or counsels sexual activity with a person under the age of 18
years that would be an offence under this Act...."
My understanding is that these measures were put into place to prohibit the
importation of the NAMBLA newsletter. The long and the short of it is, that if
Frank were a Canadian, he'd have a criminal record (and possibly a prison term)
for writing his fictional stories. This has actually been judged by the Supreme
Court of Canada in R -v- Sharpe. Some of the text materials that Mr. Sharpe was
prosecuted for went by the title, "Sam Paloc's BOYABUSE: Flogging, Fun & Fortitude"
The court essentially held that the only way for Mr. Sharpe to legally possess
such materials would be if he never showed them to anyone else. Even this the
court did only reluctantly; otherwise they would have been the position of
criminalizing the mere possession of certain thoughts.
I suppose that I'm an atypical Canadian, being a free-speech absolutist; I was
(and am) against the laws that were used to prosecute Ernst Zundel and have him
deported back to Germany. (I have little love for the Heritage Front and similar
neo-Nazi organizations, but I disagree vehemently with banning their rights to
free speech.)
As do I. However, I have no issue against using MY right to criticize
them. Especially as I have no fear of living in a "glass house."
Post by Max Grrl
- but he has a moral responsibility NOT to. Let me see if I can explain this
better . . .
With all due respect, this is errant nonsense.
The argument seems to go like this: the mere existence of such materials will
fuel pedophile fantasies, potentially leading them to abuse children. This has
been judged to be so horrendous a prospect that the mere possession of such
materials has been criminalized. (The fact that this has never been proven seems
not to matter a whit--neither does it matter that such materials could be used
in a therapeutic setting.)
I've made the point elsewhere that others like me "use" therapeutic
writing as a jump-off point for . . . more. Or at least, we discuss
the very real temptation to take our fiction writings and make them
REAL.

I actually have one group-mate who is seriously thinking about how he
can DO it. And before you ask, I have made the same comments to him .
. . how HE has a moral responsibility, regardless of what the doctor
says (meaning, the doctor TELLS him to write them), to protect others
from himself.

Make no mistake, I have no conscience and I make no pretense in having
one (outside of the NGs and group - in public, I'm just as "normal" as
anyone else, LOL) and I do not really care about the average person. As
I have said before, people are little more than cattle to me . . .
however, I do have a sense of duty. And a sense of honor. Believe it or
not.
Post by Max Grrl
Okay, I STRIVE every day to control my urges, right? Yes, I know you'll
have to take me at my word on that one, LOL . . . I KNOW how hard it is
to keep control - to deny urges that are damn nigh addictions. It's a
real fucking BITCH. BUT I DO it. And in doing it, I avoid shit like
violent pr0n. I avoid murder flicks - anything that might "set me off."
Fine and good. You are taking personal responsibility. What's to stop someone
from exercising similar personal responsiblity and simply refraining from
reading Frank's stories? You're essentially calling for Frank to censor himself, and
stop writing stories, because they _might_ trigger certain people into committing
offences.
Yes, and for those same reasons, despite a degree in creative
writing/journalism, I don't write violent fiction.
Why then, don't you similarly advocate for the elimination/criminalization of
say, murder mysteries, horror/crime movies, violent porn, and the like?
* A man murdered some of his neighbours using a method found in an Agatha
Christie murder mystery novel;
* Women were murdered in real life using a gruesome method used by a pimp to
kill one of his girls in a Dirty Harry movie;
* Some offenders have claimed (after apprehension) that their consumption of
pornography triggered their offence.
If a standard similar to that which is applied to child pornography were
applied across-the-board, murder mysteries, violent porn, and the like would be
illegal, and mere possession of these would be a criminal offence.
Essentially there is a double-standard operating here--you appear to be
holding Frank to a higher moral standard than the authors of murder mysteries, crime/
horror films and violent porno flicks.
Yes, but not any higher than the standards I hold MYSELF to.
Frank is no more at fault for the actions taken by those who read his
stories, than Agatha Christie was for the persons who used the murder methods outlined
in her novels, or the Dirty Harry movie script author was for the actions of
the persons that used that particular method shown in the Dirty Harry movie.
That's true . . . but _I_ have written no such novels (nor plan to).

And there _is_ a difference between those novels and Franks's writings
. . . their stories are made up with the basis of whim and success in
the literary field (and obviously, $$) while his are based on his own
desire. And as such, there is little reason to believe that any of
those authors would ever indulge in murder, while for Frank, as it IS a
desire, that he may one day seek to assuage.

As far as anyone knows, none of those authors have ever expressed a
desire or intention to murder anyone, however, I think we all know that
Frank DOES express a desire to have sex with young girls . . . whether
or not he loves his wife (which is actually moot) . . . he finds
children sexually attractive.

I don't seriously think that any of those authors finds murder
attractive beyond how many books will sell.
Post by Max Grrl
I make that sacrifice to keep others safe from ME. If I indulged, who
knows what could happen?? I could honestly very well murder someone . .
. Let's use your pyromaniac reference, shall we? If YOU were a pyro,
would you play with matches? Why not? Because it would lead you further
into temptation and increase the possibility that someone would be hurt
on account of it, right?
At least, as someone who deals with dangerous urges, that's my take on
it. It sucks not to indulge my . . . whims . . . but it's for the
best of all involved.
As I said earlier, fine and good. More power to you. However, by the same
token, I see you advocating for Frank to censor himself, but I _don't_ see you
advocating similar censorship of other potential triggering material. Why the
discrepancy?
I censor myself. That's all I CAN do. I don't seek to deny Frank his
right to self-expression, but I DO disapprove morally of his
indulgence.

There IS a difference, whether or not you choose to see it.

Would I try to push legislation that would deny him his right? No. Once
you take away rights it's almost impossible to protect the others, much
less reinstate those rights.

But I DO, as one "deviant" to another, disapprove of his methods, his
morality, and his motives.

Just as I disapprove of my group-mate's desire to make his stories real
. . . and just a bit of FYI, deviants like me usually care more about
other deviant's opinions.
Post by Max Grrl
And take a look-see at some of my posts - you'll see that I respect
EVERYONE'S rights under the US Constitution - I even support pedos who
DON'T give in to their urges (like 4s00th) . . . but you don't see
4s00th purposefully treading close to the line of danger, now do you?
Whilst I don't seek to deprive Frankie of his rights, I DO criticize
him for his lack of moral responsibility and his lack of "safety."
* Frank's stories are by their very nature, so corrupting that they must be
suppressed; and/or
* Persons with pedophilic tendencies are so malleable, so totally and
completely lacking in self-control that they cannot be trusted to control
themselves in the same way that _you_ manage to control yourself.
I think it provides temptation and false rationale to those who can't
afford those things.

Let me put it this way: Would I like to indulge in my "fantasies" and
write about murder? You betcha. But if I DID, if there were ONE
psychopath who might use my writings to hurt another human being . .
well, I could simply not take that chance. It's better that I deny
myself to protect others. It's a responsibility I accept in order to be
a part of a society.
I believe that both these propositions are equally wrong-headed. It _is_
possible to remove oneself from temptation--you've stated that you do that
yourself. It is _not_ possible (nor reasonable) to re-make society so as to
remove all of the many and varied sources of temptation.
No, and I don't claim that anyone can remake society - I'm simply
stating that the right thing to do is to deny yourself the pleasure
that would cause another pain.

I'm not responsible for society at large - only my actions and those
consequences that would come as a result of my actions. As is Frank for
his.

At this moment, he's being irresponsible.
You cannot condemn Frank for being 'immoral' for writing his stories, while not
also condemning the authors of murder mysteries, horror/crime flicks and violent
porn flicks. (FWIW, violent porn flicks are also illegal in Canada.)
Yes, I can. I have no contact with any other authors - other than the
ones who wrote Freakonomics, but that's another story. : ) - and as I
mentioned before, I do not think that the other authors (Christie,
Sandford, et al) have any desire to live their writings. But Frank
does.
Finally, I would like to quote a presentation to the Canadian Minister of
.. What possible justification is there to criminalize any fictionalized
depictions? Some commentators have expressed the fear that exposure to
such material could predispose certain people to imitate the depicted
behaviour in real life. But, even if everything currently defined as
"child pornography" were to disappear from the face of the earth, there
is no reason to believe that children would be made significantly safer
from pedophiles. What would we expect pedophiles to do? Take up stamp
collecting? In any event, it is not sensible to attempt to sanitize our
whole society in this way because of the alleged impact on a few
disordered souls.... -- Canadian Civil Liberties Association letter
to the Canadian Minister of Justice, 1999
Baal
Retired Lecturer, Encryption and Data Security, Pedo U, Usenet Campus
"Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?" -- "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
-- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD
[...] When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to
say to its subjects, 'this you may not read, this you must not see, this
you are forbidden to know,' the end result is tyranny and oppression,
no matter how holy the motive. -- If This Goes On, R.A. Heinlein
"To understand free speech means freedom to speak what others do not like
and even cannot stand to hear? ... Tolerating what you like is hardly a
major achievement. Hitler tolerated what he liked. So did Stalin. Idi Amin
did too. So did Genghis Khan, the Shah, and Henry Kissinger. Free speech
only becomes an issue when someone says what others don't want to hear."
-- Michael Albert
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Max Grrl
Secret Squirrel
2007-01-07 02:31:14 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Baal
In article
I think it provides temptation and false rationale to those
who can't afford those things.
Let me put it this way: Would I like to indulge in my
"fantasies" and write about murder? You betcha. But if I
DID, if there were ONE psychopath who might use my writings
to hurt another human being . . well, I could simply not
take that chance. It's better that I deny myself to protect
others. It's a responsibility I accept in order to be a
part of a society.
Just a point: if the stories of fictional stories of murder
and mayhem were banned, then any psychopath who wanted to
"get off" on such stuff would turn to non-fiction: accounts
of real murders, acts of violence in war, etc. There's just
no way to prevent this.
Post by Baal
Post by Baal
I believe that both these propositions are equally
wrong-headed. It _is_ possible to remove oneself from
temptation--you've stated that you do that yourself. It is
_not_ possible (nor reasonable) to re-make society so as
to remove all of the many and varied sources of
temptation.
No, and I don't claim that anyone can remake society - I'm
simply stating that the right thing to do is to deny
yourself the pleasure that would cause another pain.
I'm not responsible for society at large - only my actions
and those consequences that would come as a result of my
actions. As is Frank for his.
At this moment, he's being irresponsible.
Post by Baal
You cannot condemn Frank for being 'immoral' for writing
his stories, while not
also condemning the authors of murder mysteries,
horror/crime flicks and violent
porn flicks. (FWIW, violent porn flicks are also illegal
in Canada.)
Yes, I can. I have no contact with any other authors -
other than the ones who wrote Freakonomics, but that's
another story. : ) - and as I mentioned before, I do not
think that the other authors (Christie, Sandford, et al)
have any desire to live their writings. But Frank does.
Frank does? I've not read any of Frank's stories, but I
thought that Frank always took the point of view of the girl
in them. If that's so, it would be quite impossible for him
to "live his writings", he'd have to change both his age and
gender.

Besides, how do you know what motivates Christie et al? I've
always wondered about people who write full-time about murder
and mayhem, just like I do with people who have a strange
obsesssion with personal firearms.

I can't say that there is a two-way street, but there is
a correspondence between violent serial sex killers and
possession of "true life crime" magazines detailing the
violent rape and murder of women. (Please, not saying
that people who read such stuff are serial sex murderers,
just that serial sex murderers--at least the ones who get
caught--frequently read such stuff). Violent sex offenders
are more turned on by depictions, real-life or fictional,
of violence more than by pornography, including child porn.

Secret Squirrel
Max Grrl
2007-01-07 04:14:24 UTC
Permalink
In article
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Post by Baal
In article
I think it provides temptation and false rationale to those
who can't afford those things.
Let me put it this way: Would I like to indulge in my
"fantasies" and write about murder? You betcha. But if I
DID, if there were ONE psychopath who might use my writings
to hurt another human being . . well, I could simply not
take that chance. It's better that I deny myself to protect
others. It's a responsibility I accept in order to be a
part of a society.
Just a point: if the stories of fictional stories of murder
and mayhem were banned, then any psychopath who wanted to
"get off" on such stuff would turn to non-fiction: accounts
of real murders, acts of violence in war, etc. There's just
no way to prevent this.
I SEE your point, but my point is that even if that IS the case (of
which I have no doubt), then at least *I* would not be contributing to
the problem.
Post by Baal
Post by Baal
I believe that both these propositions are equally
wrong-headed. It _is_ possible to remove oneself from
temptation--you've stated that you do that yourself. It is
_not_ possible (nor reasonable) to re-make society so as
to remove all of the many and varied sources of
temptation.
No, and I don't claim that anyone can remake society - I'm
simply stating that the right thing to do is to deny
yourself the pleasure that would cause another pain.
I'm not responsible for society at large - only my actions
and those consequences that would come as a result of my
actions. As is Frank for his.
At this moment, he's being irresponsible.
Post by Baal
You cannot condemn Frank for being 'immoral' for writing
his stories, while not
also condemning the authors of murder mysteries,
horror/crime flicks and violent
porn flicks. (FWIW, violent porn flicks are also illegal
in Canada.)
Yes, I can. I have no contact with any other authors -
other than the ones who wrote Freakonomics, but that's
another story. : ) - and as I mentioned before, I do not
think that the other authors (Christie, Sandford, et al)
have any desire to live their writings. But Frank does.
Frank does? I've not read any of Frank's stories, but I
thought that Frank always took the point of view of the girl
in them. If that's so, it would be quite impossible for him
to "live his writings", he'd have to change both his age and
gender.
My point on that was that Frank DOES desire sex with children - he DOES
find it beautiful . . . and it is reflected in his stories.
Besides, how do you know what motivates Christie et al? I've
always wondered about people who write full-time about murder
and mayhem, just like I do with people who have a strange
obsesssion with personal firearms.
That's a good point - however, I do think that the "bottom line" is
more attractive to them - the money, the fame, etc.

Christie, AFAIK, did it more to shock and rebel against her peers.
I can't say that there is a two-way street, but there is
a correspondence between violent serial sex killers and
possession of "true life crime" magazines detailing the
violent rape and murder of women. (Please, not saying
that people who read such stuff are serial sex murderers,
just that serial sex murderers--at least the ones who get
caught--frequently read such stuff).
LOL, no offense taken, if you were concerned. Shrinks have been
wrestling with that for YEARS. Since Glatman, I think . . .

In any case, they *have* come to the conclusion that its a matter of
correlation, not causation.
Violent sex offenders
are more turned on by depictions, real-life or fictional,
of violence more than by pornography, including child porn.
That's true, too. And actually, it's not considered "pr0n" - the pr0n
that violent serials use - it falls under a fetish, now. Can't remember
the name of it, though . . . one of my group mates was caught with
some a while back - and I heard the name of the fetish then . . .

But the fact still remains that not all sex offenders are violent -
some, who aren't violent (meaning physically maim or torture) use
regular pr0n for fuel. It's when they escalate that they turn to the
violent shit. But not ALL escalate.

In fact, just several years ago, there was the guy who they called the
"Gentleman Rapist." He broke into women's apartments, raped them, even
did the "I'm such a good guy and this isn't my fault routine" - he was
almost more gentle with them than a real lover would be. He collected
regular pr0n - nothing violent. He had been active for about four
years? And never escalated. He DID tie them up, threaten them with a
knife ("I don't want to have to hurt you" type of monologue), but he
was never violent, per se.
Secret Squirrel
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Max Grrl
4s00th
2007-01-02 07:17:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Grrl
And take a look-see at some of my posts - you'll see that I respect
EVERYONE'S rights under the US Constitution - I even support pedos who
DON'T give in to their urges (like 4s00th) . . . but you don't see
4s00th purposefully treading close to the line of danger, now do you?
Whilst I don't seek to deprive Frankie of his rights, I DO criticize
him for his lack of moral responsibility and his lack of "safety."
Um, I hate to point this out, but I have admitted to reading such
material and finding it somewhat therapeutic. And I have written three
stories that were published in men's magazines -- but they couldn't
have any pedophilic content in them or the editors wouldn't buy them
-- hell, I had to change a paragraph that mentioned wet dreams during
sleepovers before my characters were 18!

However, I can understand why YOU would think that's such a bad thing.
As I've said, a hallmark of antisocial or sociopathic behavior is
thinking that it's okay if I don't get caught at it, but it's wrong if
someone punishes me. Therefore, stories would tend to give sociopaths
ideas and possibly encourage them. The problem is that sexual
offenders tend to be sociopathic to a certain degree as well. They are
convinced that others are here for their sport, that they are too
smart to get caught, and that it's okay if you don't get caught.
Stories would tend to encourage those people, too.

But for those of us who have a conscience and can empathize with
others, the stories can be therapeutic. They allow us some release
from the sexual desires without committing a crime. But we do have to
keep in perspective that it's only stories -- that it doesn't mean
everybody's out there doing it but us! In fact, many of the stories
are written by a small group of writers -- some of whom are incredibly
good!

Part of the problem is that we don't understand why some people
develop a conscience and the ability to empathize with others while
some people do not. It is obvious statistically that sexual offenders
tend to be less educated, more socially isolated and have poor social
skills -- so that some of it may be due to just having better coping
mechanisms. But that can only be part of it -- Max, you sound
well-educated and freely admit you have no conscience, so there must
be more to it, though, of course, you cope.

By the way, you might also want to miss the "Dexter" murder mystery
series of books by Jeff Lindsay, and I think there's even a series on
cable. I listened to the first one and found it disturbing. I like the
character, but I don't know if I'll read any more. I think I prefer
Eve Dallas novels, even if they do seem to fuck at the drop of a hat!

4s00th
Max Grrl
2007-01-02 17:55:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
And take a look-see at some of my posts - you'll see that I respect
EVERYONE'S rights under the US Constitution - I even support pedos who
DON'T give in to their urges (like 4s00th) . . . but you don't see
4s00th purposefully treading close to the line of danger, now do you?
Whilst I don't seek to deprive Frankie of his rights, I DO criticize
him for his lack of moral responsibility and his lack of "safety."
Um, I hate to point this out, but I have admitted to reading such
material and finding it somewhat therapeutic. And I have written three
stories that were published in men's magazines -- but they couldn't
have any pedophilic content in them or the editors wouldn't buy them
-- hell, I had to change a paragraph that mentioned wet dreams during
sleepovers before my characters were 18!
However, I can understand why YOU would think that's such a bad thing.
As I've said, a hallmark of antisocial or sociopathic behavior is
thinking that it's okay if I don't get caught at it, but it's wrong if
someone punishes me. Therefore, stories would tend to give sociopaths
ideas and possibly encourage them. The problem is that sexual
offenders tend to be sociopathic to a certain degree as well. They are
convinced that others are here for their sport, that they are too
smart to get caught, and that it's okay if you don't get caught.
Stories would tend to encourage those people, too.
Yeah, that's pretty much my point. I think that you and I are . . .
let's say . . . abnormal for our kind. You and I feel urges that we
deny ourselves the pleasure of indulging in. You because you have a
conscience, I for reasons of not wanting to ruin my family's life
(among a few other reasons). Also, I was kinda ingrained by my mom that
just because we CAN doesn't mean we SHOULD.
Post by 4s00th
But for those of us who have a conscience and can empathize with
others, the stories can be therapeutic. They allow us some release
from the sexual desires without committing a crime. But we do have to
keep in perspective that it's only stories -- that it doesn't mean
everybody's out there doing it but us! In fact, many of the stories
are written by a small group of writers -- some of whom are incredibly
good!
Part of the problem is that we don't understand why some people
develop a conscience and the ability to empathize with others while
some people do not. It is obvious statistically that sexual offenders
tend to be less educated, more socially isolated and have poor social
skills -- so that some of it may be due to just having better coping
mechanisms. But that can only be part of it -- Max, you sound
well-educated and freely admit you have no conscience, so there must
be more to it, though, of course, you cope.
I was simply born without a conscience. Or rather, as my shrink puts
it, with "holes." But I cope by remembering that one small slip is the
end. There is NO going back. And I use a "picture" of what I want and
NEED my life to be like. And that picture doesn't include jail, LOL.
Post by 4s00th
By the way, you might also want to miss the "Dexter" murder mystery
series of books by Jeff Lindsay, and I think there's even a series on
cable. I listened to the first one and found it disturbing. I like the
character, but I don't know if I'll read any more. I think I prefer
Eve Dallas novels, even if they do seem to fuck at the drop of a hat!
Actually, I watch it almost religiously. Mainly because he's like ME
and manages to do the "right thing." Instead of choosing normal
innocent people, he targets the predators that prey on people like my
family and friends. And since the character is "growing" it gives me
more hope that _I_ might one day grow, too.

I have the books, too . . . and they suck. Too "deus ex machina" for
my taste.
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
--
Max Grrl
4s00th
2007-01-03 04:06:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Max Grrl
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
And take a look-see at some of my posts - you'll see that I respect
EVERYONE'S rights under the US Constitution - I even support pedos who
DON'T give in to their urges (like 4s00th) . . . but you don't see
4s00th purposefully treading close to the line of danger, now do you?
Whilst I don't seek to deprive Frankie of his rights, I DO criticize
him for his lack of moral responsibility and his lack of "safety."
Um, I hate to point this out, but I have admitted to reading such
material and finding it somewhat therapeutic. And I have written three
stories that were published in men's magazines -- but they couldn't
have any pedophilic content in them or the editors wouldn't buy them
-- hell, I had to change a paragraph that mentioned wet dreams during
sleepovers before my characters were 18!
However, I can understand why YOU would think that's such a bad thing.
As I've said, a hallmark of antisocial or sociopathic behavior is
thinking that it's okay if I don't get caught at it, but it's wrong if
someone punishes me. Therefore, stories would tend to give sociopaths
ideas and possibly encourage them. The problem is that sexual
offenders tend to be sociopathic to a certain degree as well. They are
convinced that others are here for their sport, that they are too
smart to get caught, and that it's okay if you don't get caught.
Stories would tend to encourage those people, too.
Yeah, that's pretty much my point. I think that you and I are . . .
let's say . . . abnormal for our kind. You and I feel urges that we
deny ourselves the pleasure of indulging in. You because you have a
conscience, I for reasons of not wanting to ruin my family's life
(among a few other reasons). Also, I was kinda ingrained by my mom that
just because we CAN doesn't mean we SHOULD.
Post by 4s00th
But for those of us who have a conscience and can empathize with
others, the stories can be therapeutic. They allow us some release
from the sexual desires without committing a crime. But we do have to
keep in perspective that it's only stories -- that it doesn't mean
everybody's out there doing it but us! In fact, many of the stories
are written by a small group of writers -- some of whom are incredibly
good!
Part of the problem is that we don't understand why some people
develop a conscience and the ability to empathize with others while
some people do not. It is obvious statistically that sexual offenders
tend to be less educated, more socially isolated and have poor social
skills -- so that some of it may be due to just having better coping
mechanisms. But that can only be part of it -- Max, you sound
well-educated and freely admit you have no conscience, so there must
be more to it, though, of course, you cope.
I was simply born without a conscience. Or rather, as my shrink puts
it, with "holes." But I cope by remembering that one small slip is the
end. There is NO going back. And I use a "picture" of what I want and
NEED my life to be like. And that picture doesn't include jail, LOL.
Post by 4s00th
By the way, you might also want to miss the "Dexter" murder mystery
series of books by Jeff Lindsay, and I think there's even a series on
cable. I listened to the first one and found it disturbing. I like the
character, but I don't know if I'll read any more. I think I prefer
Eve Dallas novels, even if they do seem to fuck at the drop of a hat!
Actually, I watch it almost religiously. Mainly because he's like ME
and manages to do the "right thing." Instead of choosing normal
innocent people, he targets the predators that prey on people like my
family and friends. And since the character is "growing" it gives me
more hope that _I_ might one day grow, too.
I have the books, too . . . and they suck. Too "deus ex machina" for
my taste.
Isn't that interesting? I would assume that you would find the almost
permissive attitude to be disturbing and too provocative. You on the
other hand, assume that material like Frank's writing would be too
provacative to pedophiles. Interestingly enough, in Japan, you can buy
comic books depicting relationships between kids and between kids and
adults -- quite explicit comic books at that. I kind of like them --
the ones that depict relationships between kids, I'm kind of weirded
out by stuff between adults and kids. The reports of sexual abuse in
Japan are interesting -- some say that the Japanese don't view such
relationships or incidents in panic the way we Westerners do, others
say it's got a lower incidence in Japan, and still others say that
it's going through the roof in Japan.

I guess my point is that everyone is going to react differently. What
we really need is to find out why they do and see if we can find
trends that would lead to more useful treatment and intervention.

And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."

4s00th
bob&carole
2007-01-03 05:42:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
4s00th
2007-01-03 16:35:09 UTC
Permalink
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles

Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., “Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?”, Journal of Sex Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.

I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.

4s00th
bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
2007-01-04 14:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
4s00th
2007-01-04 17:15:48 UTC
Permalink
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.

There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.

4s00th
bobandcarole
2007-01-04 17:18:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
4s00th
2007-01-04 19:30:37 UTC
Permalink
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and feelings, then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe that they
are necessary to protect children.

4s0th
bobandcarole
2007-01-12 00:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and feelings, then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe that they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en


"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one
of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th

.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
4s00th
2007-01-12 01:46:50 UTC
Permalink
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and feelings, then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe that they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.

4s00th
bob&carole
2007-01-12 15:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and feelings, then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe that they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....

"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I
like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th




http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en


"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th

.


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
4s00th
2007-01-12 16:42:07 UTC
Permalink
On 12 Jan 2007 07:03:57 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and feelings, then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe that they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.

4s00th
bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
2007-01-12 19:33:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
On 12 Jan 2007 07:03:57 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings, and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and feelings, then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe that they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)


"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I
like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th




http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en


"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th

.


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
Wonderer
2007-01-13 05:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 12 Jan 2007 07:03:57 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An
unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings,
and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable
Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex
Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and feelings, then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe that they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to
children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.

can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned

Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
bob&carole
2007-01-13 12:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 12 Jan 2007 07:03:57 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An
unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings,
and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable
Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los
Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates
of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex
Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything
like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and feelings, then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe that they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I
like
them all. That does not make me a threat to
children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....


"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en


"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm one

of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th

.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
Post by Wonderer
Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
Wonderer
2007-01-13 22:23:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob&carole
Post by Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 12 Jan 2007 07:03:57 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An
unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual
feelings,
and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda
again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable
Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los
Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates
of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex
Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that
other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything
like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and
feelings,
then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe
that
they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to
children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I
like
them all. That does not make me a threat to
children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....
lets see your certificates

i have 1 in electronics, 1 in computer fundamentals as a result of adult
education, (retired) plus an radio trnasmission licence.
Post by bob&carole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
i don't want to know about what you do with little boys or girls
Post by bob&carole
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm one
of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
Post by Wonderer
Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
4s00th
2007-01-14 04:14:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wonderer
Post by bob&carole
Post by Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 12 Jan 2007 07:03:57 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile
ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An
unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual
feelings,
and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda
again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable
Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los
Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality
Correlates
of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex
Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that
other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change
anything
like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and
feelings,
then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe
that
they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to
children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I
like
them all. That does not make me a threat to
children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....
lets see your certificates
i have 1 in electronics, 1 in computer fundamentals as a result of adult
education, (retired) plus an radio trnasmission licence.
Post by bob&carole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
i don't want to know about what you do with little boys or girls
Wonderer -- that doesn't say what I do -- just that I have fantasies!

4s00th
Wonderer
2007-01-14 06:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by bob&carole
"bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily"
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 12 Jan 2007 07:03:57 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile
ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An
unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual
feelings,
and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda
again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable
Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los
Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality
Correlates
of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of
Sex
Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that
other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change
anything
like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to
be
a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and
feelings,
then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just
possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their
thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt
and
die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe
that
they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to
children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent
because I
like
them all. That does not make me a threat to
children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to
children;
I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to
children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....
lets see your certificates
i have 1 in electronics, 1 in computer fundamentals as a result of adult
education, (retired) plus an radio trnasmission licence.
Post by bob&carole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
i don't want to know about what you do with little boys or girls
Wonderer -- that doesn't say what I do -- just that I have fantasies!
i am refering to bob, not yourself, you are doing a good job at controling
yourself
i cannot bear to see a needle inserted into the skin of a childs skin for
medical purposes
as shown on a docco on our local public owned tv network.

when i see needles being pushed into children or any one else i get a
sickening feeling in my body, even seeing a child being hurt gives me a
sickening feeling.

if i upset you by attacking bob i apoligise.


Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
4s00th
2007-01-14 16:35:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by bob&carole
Post by Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....
lets see your certificates
i have 1 in electronics, 1 in computer fundamentals as a result of adult
education, (retired) plus an radio trnasmission licence.
Post by bob&carole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
i don't want to know about what you do with little boys or girls
Wonderer -- that doesn't say what I do -- just that I have fantasies!
i am refering to bob, not yourself, you are doing a good job at controling
yourself
i cannot bear to see a needle inserted into the skin of a childs skin for
medical purposes
as shown on a docco on our local public owned tv network.
when i see needles being pushed into children or any one else i get a
sickening feeling in my body, even seeing a child being hurt gives me a
sickening feeling.
if i upset you by attacking bob i apoligise.
Wonderer
The problem was that it was MY WORDS you attacked. No, I don't care if
you want to attack me, but it seemed misplaced in a general attack
against bo0By!

It also seemed contrary to your previous posts, so I wanted a little
qualification.

BTW -- I did some volunteer work on the Peds ward at the university
hospital when I was a young college student -- I had kids who would
only take a needle if they were in either my lap or a parent's lap --
so I would be holding the kid and looking the other way while the kid
sat there and watched the whole thing smiling! And this was after he
had thrown a fit just thinking about the needle!

I've gotten better -- I can watch them do it with others now since I
know it really doesn't hurt that much, but I always turn away when
they stick me so that I won't flinch from the visual info! And since I
have to take an infusion regularly, that would be a problem!

4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
Wonderer
2007-01-14 21:54:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by bob&carole
Post by Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on
Usenet
who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me
too
much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant
mind
to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....
lets see your certificates
i have 1 in electronics, 1 in computer fundamentals as a result of adult
education, (retired) plus an radio trnasmission licence.
Post by bob&carole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
i don't want to know about what you do with little boys or girls
Wonderer -- that doesn't say what I do -- just that I have fantasies!
i am refering to bob, not yourself, you are doing a good job at controling
yourself
i cannot bear to see a needle inserted into the skin of a childs skin for
medical purposes
as shown on a docco on our local public owned tv network.
when i see needles being pushed into children or any one else i get a
sickening feeling in my body, even seeing a child being hurt gives me a
sickening feeling.
if i upset you by attacking bob i apoligise.
Wonderer
The problem was that it was MY WORDS you attacked. No, I don't care if
you want to attack me, but it seemed misplaced in a general attack
against bo0By!
i will phrase my words better next time, i dont like what bob is doing with
other peoples post's taking bits out and reposting over and over again, he
has given me the impresion that he now owns that quote and that he behaves
that way.

some time back i loked horns with an very intelegent poster who was against
paedophilia, this turned into a very interesting debate including a friend
dave simpson and some other posters, the name of the poster was "holy
brets", a pity that he has left the group, now bob is nowhere as good as
holy brets and cannot have a decent debate.
Post by 4s00th
It also seemed contrary to your previous posts, so I wanted a little
qualification.
define
Post by 4s00th
BTW -- I did some volunteer work on the Peds ward at the university
hospital when I was a young college student -- I had kids who would
only take a needle if they were in either my lap or a parent's lap --
so I would be holding the kid and looking the other way while the kid
sat there and watched the whole thing smiling! And this was after he
had thrown a fit just thinking about the needle!
I've gotten better -- I can watch them do it with others now since I
know it really doesn't hurt that much, but I always turn away when
they stick me so that I won't flinch from the visual info! And since I
have to take an infusion regularly, that would be a problem!
so do i, i am deficient in vitamin b12 and must have injections every 3
months, i close my eyes and turn my head when the needle is inserted, if i
see a child fall of their bike, the feeling i get is if i am hurt as well.
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
4s00th
2007-01-14 23:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by bob&carole
Post by Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on
Usenet
who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me
too
much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant
mind
to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....
lets see your certificates
i have 1 in electronics, 1 in computer fundamentals as a result of adult
education, (retired) plus an radio trnasmission licence.
Post by bob&carole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
i don't want to know about what you do with little boys or girls
Wonderer -- that doesn't say what I do -- just that I have fantasies!
i am refering to bob, not yourself, you are doing a good job at controling
yourself
i cannot bear to see a needle inserted into the skin of a childs skin for
medical purposes
as shown on a docco on our local public owned tv network.
when i see needles being pushed into children or any one else i get a
sickening feeling in my body, even seeing a child being hurt gives me a
sickening feeling.
if i upset you by attacking bob i apoligise.
Wonderer
The problem was that it was MY WORDS you attacked. No, I don't care if
you want to attack me, but it seemed misplaced in a general attack
against bo0By!
i will phrase my words better next time, i dont like what bob is doing with
other peoples post's taking bits out and reposting over and over again, he
has given me the impresion that he now owns that quote and that he behaves
that way.
Yes, it's a pity he can't control his behavior the way some of us do.
Nonetheless, he makes sure he attributes the quotes to me, and as I am
quite willing to admit that I did, indeed, write them, then attacking
them comes off as an attack on me. Or, at the least, a
misunderstanding of what I intended when I wrote them.
Post by Wonderer
some time back i loked horns with an very intelegent poster who was against
paedophilia, this turned into a very interesting debate including a friend
dave simpson and some other posters, the name of the poster was "holy
brets", a pity that he has left the group, now bob is nowhere as good as
holy brets and cannot have a decent debate.
Of course not -- bo0By doesn't really believe in anything. Or, at
least, he doesn't post what he truly believes -- he would post nearly
anything just to piss someone off. My responses to him at this point
are practically pro forma.
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
It also seemed contrary to your previous posts, so I wanted a little
qualification.
define
In previous posts, you had been attacking bo0By, and I had got the
impression that you, at the very least, allowed for the possibility
that I am a non-acting pedophile, and that you are okay with such, if
not actually approving.
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
BTW -- I did some volunteer work on the Peds ward at the university
hospital when I was a young college student -- I had kids who would
only take a needle if they were in either my lap or a parent's lap --
so I would be holding the kid and looking the other way while the kid
sat there and watched the whole thing smiling! And this was after he
had thrown a fit just thinking about the needle!
I've gotten better -- I can watch them do it with others now since I
know it really doesn't hurt that much, but I always turn away when
they stick me so that I won't flinch from the visual info! And since I
have to take an infusion regularly, that would be a problem!
so do i, i am deficient in vitamin b12 and must have injections every 3
months, i close my eyes and turn my head when the needle is inserted, if i
see a child fall of their bike, the feeling i get is if i am hurt as well.
I use the sublingual b12 tablets once a week; my deficiency was rather
minor -- I needed a small dose every three months. And, although I
didn't really mind the shots, it just seemed more convenient to get
the tablets from the pharmacy.

See, interestingly enough, if I see a child fall of his/her bike, I
get all maternal and want to make sure he/she is okay!

4s00th
Wonderer
2007-01-14 23:32:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by bob&carole
Post by Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on
Usenet
who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me
too
much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant
mind
to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....
lets see your certificates
i have 1 in electronics, 1 in computer fundamentals as a result of adult
education, (retired) plus an radio trnasmission licence.
Post by bob&carole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
i don't want to know about what you do with little boys or girls
Wonderer -- that doesn't say what I do -- just that I have fantasies!
i am refering to bob, not yourself, you are doing a good job at controling
yourself
i cannot bear to see a needle inserted into the skin of a childs skin for
medical purposes
as shown on a docco on our local public owned tv network.
when i see needles being pushed into children or any one else i get a
sickening feeling in my body, even seeing a child being hurt gives me a
sickening feeling.
if i upset you by attacking bob i apoligise.
Wonderer
The problem was that it was MY WORDS you attacked. No, I don't care if
you want to attack me, but it seemed misplaced in a general attack
against bo0By!
i will phrase my words better next time, i dont like what bob is doing with
other peoples post's taking bits out and reposting over and over again, he
has given me the impresion that he now owns that quote and that he behaves
that way.
Yes, it's a pity he can't control his behavior the way some of us do.
Nonetheless, he makes sure he attributes the quotes to me, and as I am
quite willing to admit that I did, indeed, write them, then attacking
them comes off as an attack on me. Or, at the least, a
misunderstanding of what I intended when I wrote them.
Post by Wonderer
some time back i loked horns with an very intelegent poster who was against
paedophilia, this turned into a very interesting debate including a friend
dave simpson and some other posters, the name of the poster was "holy
brets", a pity that he has left the group, now bob is nowhere as good as
holy brets and cannot have a decent debate.
Of course not -- bo0By doesn't really believe in anything. Or, at
least, he doesn't post what he truly believes -- he would post nearly
anything just to piss someone off. My responses to him at this point
are practically pro forma.
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
It also seemed contrary to your previous posts, so I wanted a little
qualification.
define
In previous posts, you had been attacking bo0By, and I had got the
impression that you, at the very least, allowed for the possibility
that I am a non-acting pedophile, and that you are okay with such, if
not actually approving.
i understand from your posts that you are non active, but how do you handle
as in my case, children are atracted to me and i go to great lengths to
avoid them unless an adult is with them, back in 98 i was seated on a chair,
reading a science magazine and did not notice a boy about to rub himself
against me, the person who i come to see called out to me and it was then i
noticed the boy, it was very embarising.
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
BTW -- I did some volunteer work on the Peds ward at the university
hospital when I was a young college student -- I had kids who would
only take a needle if they were in either my lap or a parent's lap --
so I would be holding the kid and looking the other way while the kid
sat there and watched the whole thing smiling! And this was after he
had thrown a fit just thinking about the needle!
I've gotten better -- I can watch them do it with others now since I
know it really doesn't hurt that much, but I always turn away when
they stick me so that I won't flinch from the visual info! And since I
have to take an infusion regularly, that would be a problem!
so do i, i am deficient in vitamin b12 and must have injections every 3
months, i close my eyes and turn my head when the needle is inserted, if i
see a child fall of their bike, the feeling i get is if i am hurt as well.
I use the sublingual b12 tablets once a week; my deficiency was rather
minor -- I needed a small dose every three months. And, although I
didn't really mind the shots, it just seemed more convenient to get
the tablets from the pharmacy.
i was advised by my doctor that capsules are no good, as the digestive
juices destroy the vitamin b12 and it is better to inject
Post by 4s00th
See, interestingly enough, if I see a child fall of his/her bike, I
get all maternal and want to make sure he/she is okay!
unfortunately i do not hat training in first aid.

my addy is ligit

Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
4s00th
2007-01-15 05:34:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
some time back i loked horns with an very intelegent poster who was against
paedophilia, this turned into a very interesting debate including a friend
dave simpson and some other posters, the name of the poster was "holy
brets", a pity that he has left the group, now bob is nowhere as good as
holy brets and cannot have a decent debate.
Of course not -- bo0By doesn't really believe in anything. Or, at
least, he doesn't post what he truly believes -- he would post nearly
anything just to piss someone off. My responses to him at this point
are practically pro forma.
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
It also seemed contrary to your previous posts, so I wanted a little
qualification.
define
In previous posts, you had been attacking bo0By, and I had got the
impression that you, at the very least, allowed for the possibility
that I am a non-acting pedophile, and that you are okay with such, if
not actually approving.
i understand from your posts that you are non active, but how do you handle
as in my case, children are atracted to me and i go to great lengths to
avoid them unless an adult is with them, back in 98 i was seated on a chair,
reading a science magazine and did not notice a boy about to rub himself
against me, the person who i come to see called out to me and it was then i
noticed the boy, it was very embarising.
I've never had that problem -- damnit! But I think I understand what
you mean. Children watch and stare at me. I have a friend who thinks
it just that I pay attention to children, so I notice that they look
at me like they look at others who might not notice it. The thing is,
I see infants and toddlers staring at me as their mother's push the
shopping cart through stores -- actually turning their head to stare
at me -- and I can tell you, I'm not attracted to infants and
toddlers. I learned how to change a diaper at the age of 13, and don't
like that kind of suprise!

I've had lost kids pick me out of a crowd to ask if I would help them.
I had a kid jump into my lap in a darkened movie theatre -- he kind of
thought it was his seat, but he missed it by a row!

I think that some of us just give off good vibes that kids pick up on.
Actually, more than just kids -- everyone I've ever been interested in
romantically has ended up telling me that they just know the right
person is out there and waiting for someone as nice as me -- which is
their way of saying, I like you, but let's just be friends! I'm the
kind of guy that people confide in. But I think that kids pick them up
more clearly than adults because their minds aren't quite so set in
their ways.

It's a whole lot easier for me now -- I'm something of a recluse. I
see kids in stores or out and about, but I just smile and keep going.

4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
BTW -- I did some volunteer work on the Peds ward at the university
hospital when I was a young college student -- I had kids who would
only take a needle if they were in either my lap or a parent's lap --
so I would be holding the kid and looking the other way while the kid
sat there and watched the whole thing smiling! And this was after he
had thrown a fit just thinking about the needle!
I've gotten better -- I can watch them do it with others now since I
know it really doesn't hurt that much, but I always turn away when
they stick me so that I won't flinch from the visual info! And since I
have to take an infusion regularly, that would be a problem!
so do i, i am deficient in vitamin b12 and must have injections every 3
months, i close my eyes and turn my head when the needle is inserted, if i
see a child fall of their bike, the feeling i get is if i am hurt as well.
I use the sublingual b12 tablets once a week; my deficiency was rather
minor -- I needed a small dose every three months. And, although I
didn't really mind the shots, it just seemed more convenient to get
the tablets from the pharmacy.
i was advised by my doctor that capsules are no good, as the digestive
juices destroy the vitamin b12 and it is better to inject
Post by 4s00th
See, interestingly enough, if I see a child fall of his/her bike, I
get all maternal and want to make sure he/she is okay!
unfortunately i do not hat training in first aid.
my addy is ligit
Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
bobandcarole
2007-01-15 05:35:37 UTC
Permalink
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children;
I won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th




http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en


"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th



http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
4s00th
2007-01-15 06:02:49 UTC
Permalink
This person is a Usenet Troll. He serves no purpose, has no real
opinions, he merely posts whatever he thinks will cause a big stink.
By posting replies to him, you are playing into his hands. If you
choose to play his game, be aware that he will sit back and enjoy all
the ensuing chaos. If you wish to genuinely discuss issues or to ask
questions, please start a new thread and address them to a legitimate
participant of whatever newsgroup his horrible cross-posting has
brought this message to.

Please note that since I have begun responding to his posts in this
manner, his personal attacks on me have increased. I refuse to play
his game.

Please, I ask you, no matter how much his bullshit may disturb or
bother you, don't play his game. It's not like he really means
anything anyway. In fact, if you see him posting in other groups,
please feel free to cut and paste this message so that others will
know the truth about "bob&carole" and any of his "imitators."

4s00th


On 14 Jan 2007 21:35:37 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children;
I won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
4s00th
2007-01-15 07:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
so do i, i am deficient in vitamin b12 and must have injections every 3
months, i close my eyes and turn my head when the needle is inserted, if i
see a child fall of their bike, the feeling i get is if i am hurt as well.
I use the sublingual b12 tablets once a week; my deficiency was rather
minor -- I needed a small dose every three months. And, although I
didn't really mind the shots, it just seemed more convenient to get
the tablets from the pharmacy.
i was advised by my doctor that capsules are no good, as the digestive
juices destroy the vitamin b12 and it is better to inject
Yeah, that's why I use the sublingual -- you put them under your
tongue to dissolve and they are absorbed through your saliva gland
into your bloodstream. That may not be enough for some people, but
it's working fine for me. I take one a week but many people take them
daily.
Post by Wonderer
Post by 4s00th
See, interestingly enough, if I see a child fall of his/her bike, I
get all maternal and want to make sure he/she is okay!
unfortunately i do not hat training in first aid.
Most of the time, you don't need first aid -- they just need someone
to pick them up and ooh and aah. It can come in handy, but usually
it's just a matter of cleaning a few cuts or scrapes!
Post by Wonderer
my addy is ligit
Wonderer
4s00th

bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
2007-01-15 02:01:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by bob&carole
Post by Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 12 Jan 2007 07:03:57 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile
ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An
unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual
feelings,
and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda
again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable
Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los
Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality
Correlates
of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex
Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that
other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change
anything
like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be
a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and
feelings,
then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just
possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be
considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their
thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and
die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe
that
they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to
children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent
because I
like
them all. That does not make me a threat to
children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....
lets see your certificates
i have 1 in electronics, 1 in computer fundamentals as a result of adult
education, (retired) plus an radio trnasmission licence.
Post by bob&carole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
i don't want to know about what you do with little boys or girls
Wonderer -- that doesn't say what I do -- just that I have fantasies!
And that you are a sick, disgusting piece of dog shit......
Just like pedo frank.
4s00th
2007-01-15 02:35:07 UTC
Permalink
On 14 Jan 2007 18:01:56 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
Wonderer -- that doesn't say what I do -- just that I have fantasies!
And that you are a sick, disgusting piece of dog shit......
Just like pedo frank.
And, as always, your opinion means nothing to me.

But then, you don't really have any opionions, do you, troll?

Your only purpose for posting is to piss people off and get them all
excited and yelling and screaming and posting all kinds of bullshit.

And then you sit back and laugh at the chaos you instigated.

Thanks, I'm not playing any more.

4s00th
bob&carole
2007-01-15 04:05:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
On 14 Jan 2007 18:01:56 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
Wonderer -- that doesn't say what I do -- just that I have fantasies!
And that you are a sick, disgusting piece of dog shit......
Just like pedo frank.
And, as always, your opinion means nothing to me.
But then, you don't really have any opionions, do you, troll?
Yep, I think you should die...any other questions?

"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children;
I won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th




http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en


"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th



http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
Post by 4s00th
Your only purpose for posting is to piss people off and get them all
excited and yelling and screaming and posting all kinds of bullshit.
And then you sit back and laugh at the chaos you instigated.
Thanks, I'm not playing any more.
You better find another group to stink up, pedophile
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
Wonderer
2007-01-15 04:02:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
Post by Wonderer
Post by bob&carole
"bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily"
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 12 Jan 2007 07:03:57 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking
pedophile
ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An
unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual
feelings,
and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda
again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They
Reliable
Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California,
Los
Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality
Correlates
of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of
Sex
Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and
that
other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change
anything
like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal
to be
a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and
feelings,
then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just
possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be
considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their
thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt
and
die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or
having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of
consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe
that
they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to
children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent
because I
like
them all. That does not make me a threat to
children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does
that
mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And
how
does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to
me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but
then,
I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to
humiliate
me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on
Usenet
who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me
too
much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant
mind
to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to
children;
I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I
like
them all. That does not make me a threat to
children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....
lets see your certificates
i have 1 in electronics, 1 in computer fundamentals as a result of adult
education, (retired) plus an radio trnasmission licence.
Post by bob&carole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
i don't want to know about what you do with little boys or girls
Wonderer -- that doesn't say what I do -- just that I have fantasies!
And that you are a sick, disgusting piece of dog shit......
Just like pedo frank.
listen you dickhead give it a rest before someone lays charges against you,
don't think you can't be found, the NSA will find you easily, get yourself a
new 78 record, the old one has too many stuck grooves and repeats ad
nausium,

you don't like getting it thrown back at do you
bobandcarole~
2007-01-14 16:42:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob&carole
Post by Wonderer
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 12 Jan 2007 07:03:57 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
On 11 Jan 2007 16:18:00 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by Ed
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 09:18:27 -0800, "bobandcarole"
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
On 4 Jan 2007 06:16:34 -0800, "bobandcarole kicking pedophile
ass
Post by bobandcarole kicking pedophile ass daily
Post by 4s00th
On 2 Jan 2007 21:42:30 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
And another article I read tonight sugests that "An
unknown percentage
of true pedophiles may never act on their sexual feelings,
and many
sex offenders against minors are not pedophiles."
4s00th
You must have been reading the NAMBLA propaganda again.....
Personality Correlates of Pedophilia: Are They Reliable
Indicators?
Author(s): Paul Okami and Amy Goldberg
Department of Psychology, University of California, Los
Angeles
Citation: Okami, P. & Goldberg, A., "Personality Correlates
of
Pedophilia: Are They Reliable Indicators?", Journal of Sex
Research,
Vol. 29, No. 3, 1992, pp. 297-328.
I was not aware of any connection between UCLA and that other
organiztion.
outdated crap nothing more.
It's not like your redundant babbling with ever change anything
like
anti pedo laws :-)
Post by 4s00th
4s00th
There are no anti-pedo laws. To date, it is not illegal to be a
pedophile.
Maybe we should work on that.....
When people start being arrested for their thoughts and feelings,
then
you'd better be prepared to be in jail -- although it's just possible
that nothing that goes on in your head could possibly be considered
thought. But once you start putting people in jail for their thoughts
and desires, your thoughts and desires for people to be hurt and die
will put you in jail alongside all those you have hated and
persecuted.
Post by bobandcarole
Post by 4s00th
There are, however, laws against molesting children or having
"consensual" sex with anyone below the legal age of consent.
Much to your dismay...........
Said laws have never bothered me and never will as I believe that
they
are necessary to protect children.
4s0th
Post by bobandcarole
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to
children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I
like
them all. That does not make me a threat to
children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Just because I'm sexually attracted to children -- how does that mean
I don't want them to be protected from sexual predators? And how does
it make me a threat to children when I choose not to act on such
desires?
Post by Ed
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
Look, it's not my fault that I know the difference between a fantasy
and reality and you apparently do not.
Post by Ed
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
I fear that's all too true. Most of the people I've met on Usenet who
did have enough intelligence to humiliate me actually like me too much
to do so.
Actually I find you to have sub par intelligence and a deviant mind to
boot!
Just like pedo frank....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th
.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
And yet, my "sub par" intelligence has a better grasp and usage of
grammar, diction, syntax and rhetoric than you have shown.
LOL...really? :-)
what are your qualifications bob,
what shools did you attend and
what universities did you attend.
can you tell us what cirtificates you have earned
Obviously more than you, blow boi.....
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en
"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en


"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one

of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th

.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en



"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one
of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th

.


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en



"I am a pedophile -- someone who is sexually attracted to children; I
won't quibble about pre-adolescent or post-adolescent because I like
them all. That does not make me a threat to children"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



"Yes, I've thought about giving little boys blow jobs, and the
fantasies have been very thrilling and exciting to me"--humiliated
pedophile 4s00th



http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/d768e45a1077ee84?&hl=en


"I have on occasion been known to humiliate myself -- but then, I'm
one

of the few people with sufficient intelligence to humiliate me"
--humiliated pedophile 4s00th

.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.boy-lovers/msg/1139306e6ea99ff3?&hl=en
bob&carole
2006-12-30 13:23:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Another problem I have with bo0B is that he doesn't seem to know the
difference between fictional stories and real life.
And the problem I have with you is that you're no better than pedo
frank...


And, I'd also like
Post by 4s00th
to point out that writing down or orally recording fantasies is a
common therapy assigned to pedophiles. It's called Satiation Therapy,
"Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible"--alt.usenet.kooks.
Post by 4s00th
and the idea is that going over and over the fantasies is supposed to
"satiate" the desire. Hey, I didn't make that up!
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Just for info -- alt.callahans is a newsgroup for fans of Spider
Robinson's great Callahan short stories and novels.
Just for everyones info-- callahans is a newsgroup for perverts and
kiddiefuckers like pedo frank. They all defend pedo franks tasteless,
perverted child sex stories..even the women.
But if you check their posting history you'll find...:

***@comcast.net {Bette} posts regularly in alt.sex.stories.d
{735 posts}
***@tanstaafl.zipcon.net.invalid {Denny Wheeler} likes keeping it in
the family:
alt.sex.stories.incest, alt.sex.stories.d
Add that with a smattering of posts in alt.spanking and alt.bondage.s&m
and you
have a group of well rounded perverts and sickos.

And of course we all know about old pedo frank and his taste for
preteen girls.
He even won the alt.usenet.kooks award..LOL

"Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible"--alt.usenet.kooks.

IOW..pedo frank is a turd floating in a toilet with other turds.




They believe that
Post by 4s00th
you accept people as they are -- and that you can only judge them by
their actions, not their thoughts. One of the more popular quotes is
"Pain shared is pain halved; joy shared is joy doubled."
My personal favorite of the novels is "Lady Slings the Booze," which
takes place in bartender Mike Callahan's wife's place -- Lady Sally's
well-known brothel. The puns are truly horrific -- and the title ought
to give you a hint!
You forgot "over 8 is too late"
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
Yes, bo0B would just love it if you go flame alt.callahans and find
out that they're actually a really great group of people.
Yeah, they're just like you......

In fact,
fact is something you know nothing about, pedophile
4s00th
2006-12-30 18:15:59 UTC
Permalink
On 30 Dec 2006 05:23:49 -0800, "bob&carole"
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
Another problem I have with bo0B is that he doesn't seem to know the
difference between fictional stories and real life.
And the problem I have with you is that you're no better than pedo
frank...
But at least I know the difference between fiction and real life --
and at least I understand the US Constitution and all the principles
that this sometimes great country (the USA) was founded on. More than
that, I actually understand the political process in the US so that I
know how my participation affects laws and elections. Oh, and I don't
go around accusing people of things without proof.
Post by bob&carole
And, I'd also like
Post by 4s00th
to point out that writing down or orally recording fantasies is a
common therapy assigned to pedophiles. It's called Satiation Therapy,
"Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible"--alt.usenet.kooks.
I didn't invent satiation therapy, I don't know that it works all that
well, but I do know that it is commonly used in therapy for sexual
offenders. Look it up, if you can figure out how to do it.
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
Just for info -- alt.callahans is a newsgroup for fans of Spider
Robinson's great Callahan short stories and novels.
Just for everyones info-- callahans is a newsgroup for perverts and
kiddiefuckers like pedo frank. They all defend pedo franks tasteless,
perverted child sex stories..even the women.
{735 posts}
the family: >alt.sex.stories.incest, alt.sex.stories.d
Add that with a smattering of posts in alt.spanking and alt.bondage.s&m
and you have a group of well rounded perverts and sickos.
And of course we all know about old pedo frank and his taste for
preteen girls.
He even won the alt.usenet.kooks award..LOL
"Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible"--alt.usenet.kooks.
IOW..pedo frank is a turd floating in a toilet with other turds.
And yet, none of the things you've described above is illegal. So
people read and write stories about sex? What's the big-fucking deal?
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
They believe that
you accept people as they are -- and that you can only judge them by
their actions, not their thoughts. One of the more popular quotes is
"Pain shared is pain halved; joy shared is joy doubled."
My personal favorite of the novels is "Lady Slings the Booze," which
takes place in bartender Mike Callahan's wife's place -- Lady Sally's
well-known brothel. The puns are truly horrific -- and the title ought
to give you a hint!
You forgot "over 8 is too late"
While Spider's books share sexually liberated ideas similar to those
in Robert Heinlein's books -- none of them suggest that a prepubescent
child should be involved in sex with an adult.

I know reading strains your brain, but you really should read
something of what they've written before you go criticizing and making
a complete ass of yourself.
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
Yes, bo0B would just love it if you go flame alt.callahans and find
out that they're actually a really great group of people.
Yeah, they're just like you......
Yes, most of them do have some kind of problem or difficulty, whether
it's a physical handicap or a predilection to smack the shit out of
obnoxious Usenet trolls, but the point is that you cope. You find ways
of dealing with your troubles without hurting others.
Post by bob&carole
In fact,
fact is something you know nothing about, pedophile
Oh, I have plenty of facts, bigot -- you're the one distributing your
opinions and claiming them to be facts despite the fact that you can't
provide any proof. But then, why should I expect someone who doesn't
know the difference between fiction and real life to understand the
difference between verifiable fact and opinion?

4s00th
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-31 11:57:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by bob&carole
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
And each one of them fucking st00pid, self-serving, and overall,
massively fucked up.
Post by bobandcarole~
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL, he's not writing to defend anyone - least of all his fawning
kiddie-fucker friends.
He writes his stories to save $$ on jack-off material.
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank!
Yeah, can't wait to see how long his acceptance speech takes . . . I'm
only "off" until New Years . . . hope he'll be done by then. : )
Post by bobandcarole~
Good work on living up to this award in the most exhaustive way possible
I'm sure he had fun doing it.
Post by bobandcarole~
...and taking it like a good sport when you realized that you'd been had.
Had by whom and how many?
Did he cry at the end like his "lovers" do? Did he beg them to stop??
Post by bobandcarole~
I'd advise you to stop posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am,
Awww . . . don't do THAT! Then who will we make fun of??
Another problem I have with bo0B is that he doesn't seem to know the
difference between fictional stories and real life.
And the problem I have with you is that you're no better than pedo
frank...
And, I'd also like
Post by 4s00th
to point out that writing down or orally recording fantasies is a
common therapy assigned to pedophiles. It's called Satiation Therapy,
"Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible"--alt.usenet.kooks.
Post by 4s00th
and the idea is that going over and over the fantasies is supposed to
"satiate" the desire. Hey, I didn't make that up!
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
but I have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
Ya think?? LOL He'll take it as encouragement - you know, since child
sex= good, antis= bad.
Post by bobandcarole~
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties.
Um . . so you're saying he's never there???
Just for info -- alt.callahans is a newsgroup for fans of Spider
Robinson's great Callahan short stories and novels.
Just for everyones info-- callahans is a newsgroup for perverts and
kiddiefuckers like pedo frank. They all defend pedo franks tasteless,
perverted child sex stories..even the women.
{735 posts}
alt.sex.stories.incest, alt.sex.stories.d
Add that with a smattering of posts in alt.spanking and alt.bondage.s&m
and you
have a group of well rounded perverts and sickos.
And of course we all know about old pedo frank and his taste for
preteen girls.
He even won the alt.usenet.kooks award..LOL
"Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible"--alt.usenet.kooks.
IOW..pedo frank is a turd floating in a toilet with other turds.
They believe that
Post by 4s00th
you accept people as they are -- and that you can only judge them by
their actions, not their thoughts. One of the more popular quotes is
"Pain shared is pain halved; joy shared is joy doubled."
My personal favorite of the novels is "Lady Slings the Booze," which
takes place in bartender Mike Callahan's wife's place -- Lady Sally's
well-known brothel. The puns are truly horrific -- and the title ought
to give you a hint!
You forgot "over 8 is too late"
Post by 4s00th
Post by Max Grrl
Post by bobandcarole~
Drop him a flame.......
Will a Duraflame do?
*puts log under Frank's ass and flicks bic*
Yes, bo0B would just love it if you go flame alt.callahans and find
out that they're actually a really great group of people.
Yeah, they're just like you......
In fact,
fact is something you know nothing about, pedophile
It's kind of like television, if you don't like it change the channel.
Others may like it tho
cut2open
Frank McCoy
2006-12-31 02:15:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
Gee thanks. ;-}
Yeah, they sometimes are hard to believe.
Never imposibilities; but many are highly improbable.
Others though, people have told me, reflect their own lives.
I guess it depends on which story you pick and who you are.
--
_____
/ ' / â„¢
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
4s00th
2006-12-31 02:34:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by 4s00th
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
Gee thanks. ;-}
Yeah, they sometimes are hard to believe.
Never imposibilities; but many are highly improbable.
Others though, people have told me, reflect their own lives.
I guess it depends on which story you pick and who you are.
Personally, I like most of your stories -- but I've been a social
worker, so I've generally only seen the bad side -- the abusive side
of such relationships, that's why they seem a bit incredible to me. On
the other hand, me and one of my cousins used to spend an awful lot of
time playing touchy-feelie with each other, and we certainly weren't
forcing each other, but then we never progressed much further than
that, and now she seems to recall it as having been less mutual than I
recall it being. So, that's really the only experience I have other
than as a social worker.

But you do write more goodly than most, <wbg>

I was going to put in the link to my one contribution to the Nifty
Archives, but I forgot that it has too much real information! However,
it and several other stories I wrote have been published in either
First Hand or Guys. And, I hate magazine story editors!

4s00th
Richard Fallstrom
2006-12-31 12:04:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by 4s00th
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
Gee thanks. ;-}
Yeah, they sometimes are hard to believe.
Never imposibilities; but many are highly improbable.
Others though, people have told me, reflect their own lives.
I guess it depends on which story you pick and who you are.
Personally, I like most of your stories -- but I've been a social
worker, so I've generally only seen the bad side -- the abusive side
of such relationships, that's why they seem a bit incredible to me. On
the other hand, me and one of my cousins used to spend an awful lot of
time playing touchy-feelie with each other, and we certainly weren't
forcing each other, but then we never progressed much further than
that, and now she seems to recall it as having been less mutual than I
recall it being. So, that's really the only experience I have other
than as a social worker.
But you do write more goodly than most, <wbg>
I was going to put in the link to my one contribution to the Nifty
Archives, but I forgot that it has too much real information! However,
it and several other stories I wrote have been published in either
First Hand or Guys. And, I hate magazine story editors!
4s00th
I read the Nifty Archives too. True, some is even too round the bend
for me but mostly a decent read.
Frank McCoy
2007-01-01 02:53:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by 4s00th
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by 4s00th
Look, I don't agree with Frank's agenda, but as far as I know, he only
writes about it -- not actually participates in such. And writing
stories has no real victim, and while his stories are a little
incredible (I mean, hard to believe), they are better written than
most simple porno stories.
Gee thanks. ;-}
Yeah, they sometimes are hard to believe.
Never imposibilities; but many are highly improbable.
Others though, people have told me, reflect their own lives.
I guess it depends on which story you pick and who you are.
Personally, I like most of your stories -- but I've been a social
worker, so I've generally only seen the bad side -- the abusive side
of such relationships, that's why they seem a bit incredible to me. On
Kind of like a divorce-lawyer getting pretty much a one-sided view of
marriage? Such a person would wonder why anybody ever got married, if
this was always the result ... and that's what (s)he sees.

That's one reason I just cannot accept evaluation by people who claim to
be "experts" because they work for Child Protective Services or similar
organizations where they only see the BAD side of the stories.

I *do* get fairly frequent email from people (mostly women) telling me
how *their* stories were somewhat similar to those I write; and *not*
abusive. That's something a person in CPS would never see or even hear
about.
Post by 4s00th
the other hand, me and one of my cousins used to spend an awful lot of
time playing touchy-feelie with each other, and we certainly weren't
forcing each other, but then we never progressed much further than
that, and now she seems to recall it as having been less mutual than I
recall it being. So, that's really the only experience I have other
than as a social worker.
People's memories *do* seem to grow different over time to match what
they're brought to believe in later on in life.
Post by 4s00th
But you do write more goodly than most, <wbg>
I was going to put in the link to my one contribution to the Nifty
Archives, but I forgot that it has too much real information! However,
it and several other stories I wrote have been published in either
First Hand or Guys. And, I hate magazine story editors!
An affliction that affects many professional authors: A despise for
commercial editors. ;-}
--
_____
/ ' / â„¢
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-29 13:57:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank! Good work on living
up
to this award in the most exhaustive way possible...and taking it like
a
good sport when you realized that you'd been had. I'd advise you to
stop
posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am, but I
have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties. Drop him a flame.......
Let's see, their choices were-- inbreeding or extinction. Gosh, it's
just so hard to decide.
cut2open
b***@yahoo.com
2006-12-31 11:42:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank! Good work on living
up
to this award in the most exhaustive way possible...and taking it like
a
good sport when you realized that you'd been had. I'd advise you to
stop
posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am, but I
have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties. Drop him a flame.......
I like Frank
cut2open
bobandcarole
2006-12-31 13:38:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@yahoo.com
Post by bobandcarole~
Thought you might find this interesting considering your stance on
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f01/web3/wise.html
Yep, inbreeding worked out quite well for them, eh? ; )
--
Max Grrl
Old pedo frank finally won a nutcase award..
He's been stinking up usenet for quite a while now.
He's 70 years old and drools over preteen girls.
He reminds me of positive sex fiend, he's got a million
reasons why he should be allowed to fuck preteens.
<Drum roll>
WINNERS! Usenet Kook Awards, November 2006
UNABOMBER SURPRISE
The winner is...FRANK MCCOY!
11 Frank McCoy
06 Sampath posting as Mathew Alexander
01 Neither of the above
Congratulations, Girl-lover! It's amazing how much you can write
trying to defend the indefensible.
You are truly a winner among the verbose, Frank! Good work on living
up
to this award in the most exhaustive way possible...and taking it like
a
good sport when you realized that you'd been had. I'd advise you to
stop
posting pedo fiction like the good anti-sex crusader that I am, but I
have a strange feeling that my advice wouldn't be well-received.
FYI..pedo frank hangs out in alt.callahans when he isn't trying to get
in a 10 year old girls panties. Drop him a flame.......
I like Frank
You're a piece of shit, what else is new?
Post by b***@yahoo.com
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