Discussion:
Hey Francesca McCoy... tell us why...
(too old to reply)
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-17 02:59:10 UTC
Permalink
....you secretly long to be a girl, and get impregnated? I, for one,
would like to know.

Would you like to borrow a pair of my pantyhose? It's really not my
thing... as I prefer nothing underneath. They are just laying around,
collecting dust bunnies.

Oh! Oh! And I can also teach you how to french braid your back hair!!!

OH! And may I also suggest a subscription to alt.binaries.pictures.cocks?

There's lots of great pics over there... might help you with that
impregnation fantasy. : )
--
Kelsey Grammer - Sexiest TV star ever.

Randy Spears - Sexiest porn star ever.

Russell Crowe - Sexiest Aussie ever.

Rob Halford - Sexiest gay man ever.

Steve Wilcos (from The Jerry Springer show) - Sexiest cop ever.

Robert Englund - Sexiest horror film actor ever.

Harrison Ford - Sexiest action movie star ever.

Randy "Macho Man" Savage - Sexiest pro-wrestler ever.

Jesse Ventura - Sexiest politician ever.

Terry O'quinn - Sexiest star to ever play the role of a psychopath.
Frank McCoy
2006-04-17 05:14:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
....you secretly long to be a girl, and get impregnated? I, for one,
would like to know.
Don't.
It's just one of my fantasies ... Like the fantasy of being incredibly rich or
famous. Not necessarily something I'd like in reality; as being a girl has just
as many problems as being a man. Being incredibly rich has likely far more
problems than I have now. I'd probably have to hire a bodyguard, not just for
me, but more for the wife and kid. Even being famous has large problems.
Somebody *always* hates whatever you do.

As to being impregnated ... Well, a man has to convince a woman (or several
women) to bear children for him. A woman can decide to have kids; and easily
find some man to do the job. Or, at least so it seems.

I like kids. Having one kid was wonderful. Having four to six (if I could
afford it) would have been far better. Now, sadly, I'm getting too old for the
investment of time, energy, and most-of-all love necessary to raise a child.

But that doesn't mean I still can't dream of being young ... and yes, a girl,
and pregnant by the person I love.

Likely, like most such dreams, reality wouldn't be near as much fun as I imagine
it to be ... But then, that's a fantasy for you.
--
_____
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,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-17 16:06:51 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
....you secretly long to be a girl, and get impregnated? I, for one,
would like to know.
Don't.
It's just one of my fantasies ... Like the fantasy of being incredibly rich or
famous. Not necessarily something I'd like in reality; as being a girl has just
as many problems as being a man. Being incredibly rich has likely far more
problems than I have now. I'd probably have to hire a bodyguard, not just for
me, but more for the wife and kid. Even being famous has large problems.
Somebody *always* hates whatever you do.
As to being impregnated ... Well, a man has to convince a woman (or several
women) to bear children for him. A woman can decide to have kids; and easily
find some man to do the job. Or, at least so it seems.
I like kids. Having one kid was wonderful. Having four to six (if I could
afford it) would have been far better. Now, sadly, I'm getting too old for the
investment of time, energy, and most-of-all love necessary to raise a child.
But that doesn't mean I still can't dream of being young ... and yes, a girl,
and pregnant by the person I love.
Likely, like most such dreams, reality wouldn't be near as much fun as I imagine
it to be ... But then, that's a fantasy for you.
What about the pantyhose???
--
Kelsey Grammer - Sexiest TV star ever.

Randy Spears - Sexiest porn star ever.

Russell Crowe - Sexiest Aussie ever.

Rob Halford - Sexiest gay man ever.

Steve Wilcos (from The Jerry Springer show) - Sexiest cop ever.

Robert Englund - Sexiest horror film actor ever.

Harrison Ford - Sexiest action movie star ever.

Randy "Macho Man" Savage - Sexiest pro-wrestler ever.

Jesse Ventura - Sexiest politician ever.

Terry O'quinn - Sexiest star to ever play the role of a psychopath.
Frank McCoy
2006-04-17 17:17:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
....you secretly long to be a girl, and get impregnated? I, for one,
would like to know.
Don't.
It's just one of my fantasies ... Like the fantasy of being incredibly rich or
famous. Not necessarily something I'd like in reality; as being a girl has just
as many problems as being a man. Being incredibly rich has likely far more
problems than I have now. I'd probably have to hire a bodyguard, not just for
me, but more for the wife and kid. Even being famous has large problems.
Somebody *always* hates whatever you do.
As to being impregnated ... Well, a man has to convince a woman (or several
women) to bear children for him. A woman can decide to have kids; and easily
find some man to do the job. Or, at least so it seems.
I like kids. Having one kid was wonderful. Having four to six (if I could
afford it) would have been far better. Now, sadly, I'm getting too old for the
investment of time, energy, and most-of-all love necessary to raise a child.
But that doesn't mean I still can't dream of being young ... and yes, a girl,
and pregnant by the person I love.
Likely, like most such dreams, reality wouldn't be near as much fun as I imagine
it to be ... But then, that's a fantasy for you.
What about the pantyhose???
Sorry. Never felt the desire to dress up as a woman.
The only use I personally have for pantyhose is to use it to put a final polish
on my shoes. Nylons can buff a shine really good. My DI in the Marines taught
me that trick. Oh yeah ... and they sometimes make a nice strainer/filter for
various things.
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
A***@NOT.AT.Arargh.com
2006-04-17 19:48:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:17:26 -0500, Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com>
wrote:

<snip>
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
What about the pantyhose???
Sorry. Never felt the desire to dress up as a woman.
The only use I personally have for pantyhose is to use it to put a final polish
on my shoes. Nylons can buff a shine really good. My DI in the Marines taught
me that trick. Oh yeah ... and they sometimes make a nice strainer/filter for
various things.
Straining paint (from that old can that has been sitting around for
years) (oil based) is what I have seen them used for.
--
ArarghMail604 at [drop the 'http://www.' from ->] http://www.arargh.com
BCET Basic Compiler Page: http://www.arargh.com/basic/index.html

To reply by email, remove the garbage from the reply address.
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-17 20:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
....you secretly long to be a girl, and get impregnated? I, for one,
would like to know.
Don't.
It's just one of my fantasies ... Like the fantasy of being incredibly rich or
famous. Not necessarily something I'd like in reality; as being a girl has just
as many problems as being a man. Being incredibly rich has likely far more
problems than I have now. I'd probably have to hire a bodyguard, not just for
me, but more for the wife and kid. Even being famous has large problems.
Somebody *always* hates whatever you do.
As to being impregnated ... Well, a man has to convince a woman (or several
women) to bear children for him. A woman can decide to have kids; and easily
find some man to do the job. Or, at least so it seems.
I like kids. Having one kid was wonderful. Having four to six (if I could
afford it) would have been far better. Now, sadly, I'm getting too old for the
investment of time, energy, and most-of-all love necessary to raise a child.
But that doesn't mean I still can't dream of being young ... and yes, a girl,
and pregnant by the person I love.
Likely, like most such dreams, reality wouldn't be near as much fun as I imagine
it to be ... But then, that's a fantasy for you.
What about the pantyhose???
Sorry. Never felt the desire to dress up as a woman.
The only use I personally have for pantyhose is to use it to put a final polish
on my shoes. Nylons can buff a shine really good. My DI in the Marines taught
me that trick. Oh yeah ... and they sometimes make a nice strainer/filter for
various things.
Have you ever masturbated with them?
--
Kelsey Grammer - Sexiest TV star ever.

Randy Spears - Sexiest porn star ever.

Russell Crowe - Sexiest Aussie ever.

Rob Halford - Sexiest gay man ever.

Steve Wilcos (from The Jerry Springer show) - Sexiest cop ever.

Robert Englund - Sexiest horror film actor ever.

Harrison Ford - Sexiest action movie star ever.

Randy "Macho Man" Savage - Sexiest pro-wrestler ever.

Jesse Ventura - Sexiest politician ever.

Terry O'quinn - Sexiest star to ever play the role of a psychopath.
Frank McCoy
2006-04-18 04:16:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
....you secretly long to be a girl, and get impregnated? I, for one,
would like to know.
Don't.
It's just one of my fantasies ... Like the fantasy of being incredibly rich or
famous. Not necessarily something I'd like in reality; as being a girl has just
as many problems as being a man. Being incredibly rich has likely far more
problems than I have now. I'd probably have to hire a bodyguard, not just for
me, but more for the wife and kid. Even being famous has large problems.
Somebody *always* hates whatever you do.
As to being impregnated ... Well, a man has to convince a woman (or several
women) to bear children for him. A woman can decide to have kids; and easily
find some man to do the job. Or, at least so it seems.
I like kids. Having one kid was wonderful. Having four to six (if I could
afford it) would have been far better. Now, sadly, I'm getting too old for the
investment of time, energy, and most-of-all love necessary to raise a child.
But that doesn't mean I still can't dream of being young ... and yes, a girl,
and pregnant by the person I love.
Likely, like most such dreams, reality wouldn't be near as much fun as I imagine
it to be ... But then, that's a fantasy for you.
What about the pantyhose???
Sorry. Never felt the desire to dress up as a woman.
The only use I personally have for pantyhose is to use it to put a final polish
on my shoes. Nylons can buff a shine really good. My DI in the Marines taught
me that trick. Oh yeah ... and they sometimes make a nice strainer/filter for
various things.
Have you ever masturbated with them?
Nope. Never used clothing of any kind to masturbate with.
The idea appeals to me like using sandpaper for the same reason.
Ick.
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-18 04:56:12 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
....you secretly long to be a girl, and get impregnated? I, for one,
would like to know.
Don't.
It's just one of my fantasies ... Like the fantasy of being incredibly rich or
famous. Not necessarily something I'd like in reality; as being a girl has just
as many problems as being a man. Being incredibly rich has likely far more
problems than I have now. I'd probably have to hire a bodyguard, not just for
me, but more for the wife and kid. Even being famous has large problems.
Somebody *always* hates whatever you do.
As to being impregnated ... Well, a man has to convince a woman (or several
women) to bear children for him. A woman can decide to have kids; and easily
find some man to do the job. Or, at least so it seems.
I like kids. Having one kid was wonderful. Having four to six (if I could
afford it) would have been far better. Now, sadly, I'm getting too old for the
investment of time, energy, and most-of-all love necessary to raise a child.
But that doesn't mean I still can't dream of being young ... and yes, a girl,
and pregnant by the person I love.
Likely, like most such dreams, reality wouldn't be near as much fun as I imagine
it to be ... But then, that's a fantasy for you.
What about the pantyhose???
Sorry. Never felt the desire to dress up as a woman.
The only use I personally have for pantyhose is to use it to put a final polish
on my shoes. Nylons can buff a shine really good. My DI in the Marines taught
me that trick. Oh yeah ... and they sometimes make a nice strainer/filter for
various things.
Have you ever masturbated with them?
Nope. Never used clothing of any kind to masturbate with.
The idea appeals to me like using sandpaper for the same reason.
Ick.
The idea of placing a pair of women's pantyhose on your penis turns you
off, but the idea of being a little girl and getting impregnated
doesn't???

LOL Oh boy... it really DOES take all kinds to make the world go round.
--
Kelsey Grammer - Sexiest TV star ever.

Randy Spears - Sexiest porn star ever.

Russell Crowe - Sexiest Aussie ever.

Rob Halford - Sexiest gay man ever.

Steve Wilcos (from The Jerry Springer show) - Sexiest cop ever.

Robert Englund - Sexiest horror film actor ever.

Harrison Ford - Sexiest action movie star ever.

Randy "Macho Man" Savage - Sexiest pro-wrestler ever.

Jesse Ventura - Sexiest politician ever.

Terry O'quinn - Sexiest star to ever play the role of a psychopath.
Frank McCoy
2006-04-18 05:39:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
The idea of placing a pair of women's pantyhose on your penis turns you
off, but the idea of being a little girl and getting impregnated
doesn't???
Yup.
Pantyhose always got in the fricking WAY whenever the woman I was going to have
sex with had it on. A bloody turn-off if there ever was one. Heck, I thing
pantyhose was invented as some kind of anti-sex device. By the time you get it
off (whether the girl or the guy is doing the removing) you've almost lost
interest in the actual sex because you're so fucking *frustrated*.

Being impregnated *by somebody I love*; carrying the child *of* that love inside
me as it grows for nine months; giving birth to a real person, a part of me and
a part of my partner; and then raising that child through the wonder-years ...
Well, if you like children, then how can that NOT be a turn-on?

Yes, some women don't like the idea of being pregnant.
They shouldn't be mothers.
Many men besides me would love the idea.
If there ever is a way, then any clinic asking for volunteers would be swamped
with applications. (Actually, there have been several doctors who said it could
be done ... and THEY got swamped with people volunteering to be guinea-pigs.)

Yes, it's nice having sex with a wonderful woman (like my wife) and creating a
child together ... But there you've got to *convince* the woman to have your
baby, you can NEVER be *completely* sure it's yours, and you can only have as
many babies as you can convince women (or the woman) to have FOR you. If you
truly love kids (and I'm *NOT* talking about sex here) then this, at the very
least, seems sometimes downright unfair.

Why can't MEN have as many babies as they want, just like women can?
(Well, at least the loving, caring, and nurturing type of men.)
Thus the *fantasy* of being a little girl who is *allowed* and even *encouraged*
to have as many babies as she wants to.

Why a *little* girl?
That give more time to have kids, of course,
(Well, the assumption is she wants to have LOTS of kids.)

There *IS* a real big problem I almost never mention in my stories (_almost_
never, not never) and that is: If we have all those little girls having lots of
babies ... Then the already bad overpopulation problem suddenly went
critical-mass! But then, like I said, it's a *fantasy*; so in the fantasy we
ignore such little issues.
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-18 06:04:48 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
The idea of placing a pair of women's pantyhose on your penis turns you
off, but the idea of being a little girl and getting impregnated
doesn't???
Yup.
Pantyhose always got in the fricking WAY whenever the woman I was going to have
sex with had it on. A bloody turn-off if there ever was one. Heck, I thing
pantyhose was invented as some kind of anti-sex device. By the time you get it
off (whether the girl or the guy is doing the removing) you've almost lost
interest in the actual sex because you're so fucking *frustrated*.
Being impregnated *by somebody I love*; carrying the child *of* that love inside
me as it grows for nine months; giving birth to a real person, a part of me and
a part of my partner; and then raising that child through the wonder-years ...
Well, if you like children, then how can that NOT be a turn-on?
Yes, some women don't like the idea of being pregnant.
They shouldn't be mothers.
Many men besides me would love the idea.
If there ever is a way, then any clinic asking for volunteers would be swamped
with applications. (Actually, there have been several doctors who said it could
be done ... and THEY got swamped with people volunteering to be guinea-pigs.)
Yes, it's nice having sex with a wonderful woman (like my wife) and creating a
child together ... But there you've got to *convince* the woman to have your
baby, you can NEVER be *completely* sure it's yours, and you can only have as
many babies as you can convince women (or the woman) to have FOR you. If you
truly love kids (and I'm *NOT* talking about sex here) then this, at the very
least, seems sometimes downright unfair.
Why can't MEN have as many babies as they want, just like women can?
(Well, at least the loving, caring, and nurturing type of men.)
Thus the *fantasy* of being a little girl who is *allowed* and even *encouraged*
to have as many babies as she wants to.
Why a *little* girl?
That give more time to have kids, of course,
(Well, the assumption is she wants to have LOTS of kids.)
There *IS* a real big problem I almost never mention in my stories (_almost_
never, not never) and that is: If we have all those little girls having lots of
babies ... Then the already bad overpopulation problem suddenly went
critical-mass! But then, like I said, it's a *fantasy*; so in the fantasy we
ignore such little issues.
Yes, I've heard some of this before... the old "I want my women barefoot
and pregnant" mentality.

Of course you think being pregnant would be a picnic, you're a man, and
have no idea just how miserable it is. LOL Trust me, one day in a
woman's body, and you would be kicking and screaming and demanding to be
put back into your comfortable, uncomplicated male form.

As for your fantasy... you DO realize that it would involve your having
sex with a man, right? Are you attracted to other men?
--
Kelsey Grammer - Sexiest TV star ever.

Randy Spears - Sexiest porn star ever.

Russell Crowe - Sexiest Aussie ever.

Rob Halford - Sexiest gay man ever.

Steve Wilcos (from The Jerry Springer show) - Sexiest cop ever.

Robert Englund - Sexiest horror film actor ever.

Harrison Ford - Sexiest action movie star ever.

Randy "Macho Man" Savage - Sexiest pro-wrestler ever.

Jesse Ventura - Sexiest politician ever.

Terry O'quinn - Sexiest star to ever play the role of a psychopath.
Frank McCoy
2006-04-18 06:35:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
Yes, I've heard some of this before... the old "I want my women barefoot
and pregnant" mentality.
Huh? That's the old *sexist* attitude.
I want *my* women independent, smart, and able to care for themselves.
That's *able*, not *required*.
That way, if anything happens to me, the woman I love wouldn't be left dependent
or stranded.
Subservience is NOT in any fantasy of MINE.
(Actually, that's more of a horror-story to me.)
I *CARE* for my wife. I do NOT control her!
(She cares for me; so that balances.)

Also, my fantasy is to have kids ... MY kids, not force a wife into having them.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Of course you think being pregnant would be a picnic, you're a man, and
have no idea just how miserable it is. LOL Trust me, one day in a
woman's body, and you would be kicking and screaming and demanding to be
put back into your comfortable, uncomplicated male form.
I doubt that very much.
All the things that women complain about in *raising* kids, I do very well and
enjoy. Anybody who has met me and seen me around kids says I make a better
mother than most mothers. My wife certainly thinks I make a better mother than
her ... and left most of the mothering to me, because I was better at it.

I also know about *ALL* the various problems of pregnancy; from swollen ankles,
having to pee all the time, morning sickness, weighing what feels like a ton,
trouble sleeping, and many others. My wife carried a child .... And yet I've
taken pains and had other problems that would put her in bed for months while I
just went on working. The gain would be *WORTH* the pains and problems *TO ME*.

Not to many others, I know.
But then:
MOST men aren't the one to get up in the middle of the night when the baby
whimpers ... they leave that to the woman.
MOST men aren't the one to clean up the mess when the kid barfs ... they leave
that to the woman.
MOST men expect the woman to keep house while raising the kid without help in
either one.
MOST men let the woman nurse the kid when it's sick, take it to the hospital,
and stay there while the kid gets cared-for.
MOST men think raising a kid, "is the woman's job."
MOST men won't even change a diaper unless practically forced-to.

However, MOST /= ALL.
I'm not most men.
Ask my wife which one of us made the better mother.

And talk about sexist:
Just because a man *can't* have a baby, you ass-u-me that no man would really
want to put up with the pains to get the pleasures ... Something many women
(obviously OTHER than you) quite willingly do all the time. Definitely sexist
to suggest that no MAN would ever feel the same way.

My wife, at least, knows better.
Post by Twinkle Toes
As for your fantasy... you DO realize that it would involve your having
sex with a man, right? Are you attracted to other men?
A. Yes, of course it would.
B. No. Not in *this* body.
C. I like *heterosexual* sex.

That means that *as a woman* I would want sex with men, not women.
Men and women FIT TOGETHER better than a man with a man or a woman with a woman.
Call me sexist if you're homosexual; but that's just how I think.
I have daydreams of being a girl and having sex with a man *in my vagina*, not
up my ass. That doesn't turn me off all that much ... But it certainly doesn't
turn me on! Mostly, to me, it seems, well ... painful for both people. Oral
sex is ... Well, possibly better than masturbation; but not what I base most of
my daydreams on.

To me, *sex* is a penis in a vagina; and in my imagination I can take either
role. But pretty much ONLY sex with a man as a woman or girl; just like ONLY
sex with a woman as a man or boy. A bit provincial maybe; but male/female sex
is what turns me on; not male/male sex or even female/female sex like some men
like to see. It's just that I have no problem assuming the opposite role.

But being a man having sex with a man ... Sorry, but I (presently) have no
vagina; the prick keeps getting in the way; and I'm keeping the equipment I've
got because so-called "sex-change operations" aren't really. The new "woman"
can't have kids; and the new "man" can't father kids. That's just strapping on
a fancy dildo for the woman-changing-to-a-man; and something about equally fake
for the man-changing-to-a-woman. Ick. Why give up GOOD sex for something that
can't even approach what you already have?

Now if sex-change operations were REAL ... Well, it's WAY too late for me now
anyway. I'll stick with what I've got and my wonderful wife.
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-18 07:10:13 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Yes, I've heard some of this before... the old "I want my women barefoot
and pregnant" mentality.
Huh? That's the old *sexist* attitude.
I want *my* women independent, smart, and able to care for themselves.
That's *able*, not *required*.
That way, if anything happens to me, the woman I love wouldn't be left dependent
or stranded.
Subservience is NOT in any fantasy of MINE.
(Actually, that's more of a horror-story to me.)
I *CARE* for my wife. I do NOT control her!
(She cares for me; so that balances.)
Well, you seemed to be ranting as to how men cannot decide when to have
kids, and how it is up to a willing female. At least, that was my
interpretation of it.
Post by Frank McCoy
Also, my fantasy is to have kids ... MY kids, not force a wife into having them.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Of course you think being pregnant would be a picnic, you're a man, and
have no idea just how miserable it is. LOL Trust me, one day in a
woman's body, and you would be kicking and screaming and demanding to be
put back into your comfortable, uncomplicated male form.
I doubt that very much.
All the things that women complain about in *raising* kids, I do very well and
enjoy. Anybody who has met me and seen me around kids says I make a better
mother than most mothers. My wife certainly thinks I make a better mother than
her ... and left most of the mothering to me, because I was better at it.
I also know about *ALL* the various problems of pregnancy; from swollen ankles,
having to pee all the time, morning sickness, weighing what feels like a ton,
trouble sleeping, and many others. My wife carried a child .... And yet I've
taken pains and had other problems that would put her in bed for months while I
just went on working. The gain would be *WORTH* the pains and problems *TO ME*.
Well, the actual process of giving birth is supposedly quite painful. I
was lucky enough to have a c-section. I can attest that the labor pains
WERE the second most painful thing I have ever experienced, and I'm no
softy. You really can't say things like "I doubt it", and other BS,
since you are a MAN. Admit that you don't know the first thing about
what it's like to be female... claiming otherwise makes you appear
arrogant & cocky.
Post by Frank McCoy
Not to many others, I know.
MOST men aren't the one to get up in the middle of the night when the baby
whimpers ... they leave that to the woman.
MOST men aren't the one to clean up the mess when the kid barfs ... they leave
that to the woman.
MOST men expect the woman to keep house while raising the kid without help in
either one.
MOST men let the woman nurse the kid when it's sick, take it to the hospital,
and stay there while the kid gets cared-for.
MOST men think raising a kid, "is the woman's job."
MOST men won't even change a diaper unless practically forced-to.
However, MOST /= ALL.
I'm not most men.
Ask my wife which one of us made the better mother.
Just because a man *can't* have a baby, you ass-u-me that no man would really
want to put up with the pains to get the pleasures ... Something many women
(obviously OTHER than you) quite willingly do all the time. Definitely sexist
to suggest that no MAN would ever feel the same way.
Sexist? I'm just going by what most men have told me.
Post by Frank McCoy
My wife, at least, knows better.
Post by Twinkle Toes
As for your fantasy... you DO realize that it would involve your having
sex with a man, right? Are you attracted to other men?
A. Yes, of course it would.
B. No. Not in *this* body.
C. I like *heterosexual* sex.
That means that *as a woman* I would want sex with men, not women.
Men and women FIT TOGETHER better than a man with a man or a woman with a woman.
Call me sexist if you're homosexual; but that's just how I think.
Eh... I'm straight, Frank. You KNOW this. I agree that heterosexuality
makes more sense.
Post by Frank McCoy
I have daydreams of being a girl and having sex with a man *in my vagina*, not
up my ass. That doesn't turn me off all that much ... But it certainly doesn't
turn me on! Mostly, to me, it seems, well ... painful for both people. Oral
sex is ... Well, possibly better than masturbation; but not what I base most of
my daydreams on.
To me, *sex* is a penis in a vagina; and in my imagination I can take either
role. But pretty much ONLY sex with a man as a woman or girl; just like ONLY
sex with a woman as a man or boy. A bit provincial maybe; but male/female sex
is what turns me on; not male/male sex or even female/female sex like some men
like to see. It's just that I have no problem assuming the opposite role.
But being a man having sex with a man ... Sorry, but I (presently) have no
vagina; the prick keeps getting in the way; and I'm keeping the equipment I've
got because so-called "sex-change operations" aren't really. The new "woman"
can't have kids; and the new "man" can't father kids. That's just strapping on
a fancy dildo for the woman-changing-to-a-man; and something about equally fake
for the man-changing-to-a-woman. Ick. Why give up GOOD sex for something that
can't even approach what you already have?
Now if sex-change operations were REAL ... Well, it's WAY too late for me now
anyway. I'll stick with what I've got and my wonderful wife.
Yes, I understand that you are a man, and do not wish to have sex with
another man, as a man. The point I'm trying to make is, in order to even
indulge in this fantasy of yours, you MUST have some level of attraction
to men.
--
Kelsey Grammer - Sexiest TV star ever.

Randy Spears - Sexiest porn star ever.

Russell Crowe - Sexiest Aussie ever.

Rob Halford - Sexiest gay man ever.

Steve Wilcos (from The Jerry Springer show) - Sexiest cop ever.

Robert Englund - Sexiest horror film actor ever.

Harrison Ford - Sexiest action movie star ever.

Randy "Macho Man" Savage - Sexiest pro-wrestler ever.

Jesse Ventura - Sexiest politician ever.

Terry O'quinn - Sexiest star to ever play the role of a psychopath.
Frank McCoy
2006-04-18 14:58:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Yes, I've heard some of this before... the old "I want my women barefoot
and pregnant" mentality.
Huh? That's the old *sexist* attitude.
I want *my* women independent, smart, and able to care for themselves.
That's *able*, not *required*.
That way, if anything happens to me, the woman I love wouldn't be left dependent
or stranded.
Subservience is NOT in any fantasy of MINE.
(Actually, that's more of a horror-story to me.)
I *CARE* for my wife. I do NOT control her!
(She cares for me; so that balances.)
Well, you seemed to be ranting as to how men cannot decide when to have
kids, and how it is up to a willing female. At least, that was my
interpretation of it.
Up to a *willing* female.
Not wanting to force or even pressure a woman into having kids makes the fantasy
of being able to have them myself, just like any woman can, without needing much
more than the help of the opposite sex for a night or two, seem attractive.

But you've got to love kids to appreciate the attraction.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by Frank McCoy
Also, my fantasy is to have kids ... MY kids, not force a wife into having them.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Of course you think being pregnant would be a picnic, you're a man, and
have no idea just how miserable it is. LOL Trust me, one day in a
woman's body, and you would be kicking and screaming and demanding to be
put back into your comfortable, uncomplicated male form.
I doubt that very much.
All the things that women complain about in *raising* kids, I do very well and
enjoy. Anybody who has met me and seen me around kids says I make a better
mother than most mothers. My wife certainly thinks I make a better mother than
her ... and left most of the mothering to me, because I was better at it.
I also know about *ALL* the various problems of pregnancy; from swollen ankles,
having to pee all the time, morning sickness, weighing what feels like a ton,
trouble sleeping, and many others. My wife carried a child .... And yet I've
taken pains and had other problems that would put her in bed for months while I
just went on working. The gain would be *WORTH* the pains and problems *TO ME*.
Well, the actual process of giving birth is supposedly quite painful. I
was lucky enough to have a c-section. I can attest that the labor pains
WERE the second most painful thing I have ever experienced, and I'm no
softy. You really can't say things like "I doubt it", and other BS,
since you are a MAN. Admit that you don't know the first thing about
what it's like to be female... claiming otherwise makes you appear
arrogant & cocky.
Talk about arrogant and cocky!
Your flat-out assumption that I couldn't possibly be willing to go through the
pain of labor, just because I CAN'T is about as arrogant and sexist as anything
I've ever heard.

I know that. But I'd be willing to have a leg cut off without anaesthetic to
have a kid; so ....

My point is:
I'd be WILLING to go through it. THAT is what matters.
Just like *any* woman (of course) I might regret it when it was happening; but
wouldn't be able to stop it *then*. That also wouldn't diminish my pleasure of
holding my own kid afterwards; just like it doesn't for anybody man or woman.

A man doesn't KNOW he's going to die when he volunteers for the Armed Services
... Nor that he is going to come home minus a leg and eye. But he STILL
volunteers for the duty ... Just like women all over the world volunteer to have
children ... knowing THEY will go through labor to get them.

And *NO WOMAN* really KNOWS what labor is like, just like *NO MAN* knows, until
she's had one! But they STILL volunteer gladly. Why do you think that no MAN
has the guts to do the same thing?

You must have a REALLY low opinion about the guts and bravery of most men.
Why not tell us what you REALLY think?
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by Frank McCoy
Not to many others, I know.
MOST men aren't the one to get up in the middle of the night when the baby
whimpers ... they leave that to the woman.
MOST men aren't the one to clean up the mess when the kid barfs ... they leave
that to the woman.
MOST men expect the woman to keep house while raising the kid without help in
either one.
MOST men let the woman nurse the kid when it's sick, take it to the hospital,
and stay there while the kid gets cared-for.
MOST men think raising a kid, "is the woman's job."
MOST men won't even change a diaper unless practically forced-to.
However, MOST /= ALL.
I'm not most men.
Ask my wife which one of us made the better mother.
Just because a man *can't* have a baby, you ass-u-me that no man would really
want to put up with the pains to get the pleasures ... Something many women
(obviously OTHER than you) quite willingly do all the time. Definitely sexist
to suggest that no MAN would ever feel the same way.
Sexist? I'm just going by what most men have told me.
"Most men"
As I said repeatedly, I'm NOT "most men".
You just don't want to believe a man would have the guts; because it makes you
feel all superior in being a woman.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by Frank McCoy
My wife, at least, knows better.
Post by Twinkle Toes
As for your fantasy... you DO realize that it would involve your having
sex with a man, right? Are you attracted to other men?
A. Yes, of course it would.
B. No. Not in *this* body.
C. I like *heterosexual* sex.
That means that *as a woman* I would want sex with men, not women.
Men and women FIT TOGETHER better than a man with a man or a woman with a woman.
Call me sexist if you're homosexual; but that's just how I think.
Eh... I'm straight, Frank. You KNOW this. I agree that heterosexuality
makes more sense.
Sorry; but some very decidedly lesbian women (whom I respect except for some of
their attitudes towards me) have taken me to task for even *hinting* that
male/female sex is "better" than same-sex sex. So it was a case of "covering my
ass" on that one. Didn't mean to suggest that you were gay. That's why I put
in the caveat: "if".
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by Frank McCoy
I have daydreams of being a girl and having sex with a man *in my vagina*, not
up my ass. That doesn't turn me off all that much ... But it certainly doesn't
turn me on! Mostly, to me, it seems, well ... painful for both people. Oral
sex is ... Well, possibly better than masturbation; but not what I base most of
my daydreams on.
To me, *sex* is a penis in a vagina; and in my imagination I can take either
role. But pretty much ONLY sex with a man as a woman or girl; just like ONLY
sex with a woman as a man or boy. A bit provincial maybe; but male/female sex
is what turns me on; not male/male sex or even female/female sex like some men
like to see. It's just that I have no problem assuming the opposite role.
But being a man having sex with a man ... Sorry, but I (presently) have no
vagina; the prick keeps getting in the way; and I'm keeping the equipment I've
got because so-called "sex-change operations" aren't really. The new "woman"
can't have kids; and the new "man" can't father kids. That's just strapping on
a fancy dildo for the woman-changing-to-a-man; and something about equally fake
for the man-changing-to-a-woman. Ick. Why give up GOOD sex for something that
can't even approach what you already have?
Now if sex-change operations were REAL ... Well, it's WAY too late for me now
anyway. I'll stick with what I've got and my wonderful wife.
Yes, I understand that you are a man, and do not wish to have sex with
another man, as a man. The point I'm trying to make is, in order to even
indulge in this fantasy of yours, you MUST have some level of attraction
to men.
Um ... I have an attraction to SEX ... Male/female sex.
I don't dislike men; nor does the thought of having sex with a man turn me off.
It just doesn't turn me ON.

Call me weird; but (as you'd find out if you read any of my stories) for sex to
turn me on, there usually has to be at least the *slight* chance of pregnancy;
if only in my imagination. I can stretch my imagination that far when having
sex with my wife; even though we're both well over 60. I can't do that if I was
having sex with a man.

I write sex-stories; *usually* involving young girls eager for sex like I
imagine myself being as a young girl. My stories also usually involve incest;
as that gives far more *opportunity* to have unprotected sex. They involve
young people; because there's something a bit extra erotic about first-times,
before sex becomes as common as eating dinner.

(Now don't get me wrong: Eating dinner, just like having sex every day, can be
FUN. With a decent cook in the house, it doesn't have to be *boring*. Same
thing with sex. But a first time is something special and extra erotic;
somewhat like the very first time you go out to a REAL and FANCY restaurant,
especially if you've never even been to McDonald's before.)

But not *all* of my stories involve young people, and not all involve incest.
Just about all (except my Science-Fiction stories) and *all* of my sex-stories,
DO involve unprotected sex ... and at least the *chance* of pregnancy.

That's whether told from the man's side, the girl's side, or from the viewpoint
of an interested person looking on.

It's funny though: Even though incest is a common factor in about 85% of the
stories I write, my *own* family never appears in the fantasies. Not my father,
not my mother, brother, or even sister; who I'll admit is quite a beautiful
woman. Just never really had any sexual fantasies about her. The "sisters" in
my stories bear no resemblance at all to my real sister; nor do any of the other
family-members bear any similarity to my own family. Oh, not that I'd turn my
sister *down* if SHE approached ME for sex (and my wife was willing to go
along); but she never would; and I certainly would never tell her. I doubt she
even knows I write such stories; though everybody else in the family does.

Pregnancy though, appears in *all* my sex-stories, or at the very least is
hinted-at.

So: I guess I have a fetish about pregnancy.
So maybe I don't fit your nice little mental image of what "all men" are.
So sue me. ;-}
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Frank McCoy
2006-04-19 04:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Uh, it could just be my imagination, but *YOU* appear to be the one who
views women as superiors.
NOT superiors; nor inferiors either.
Just different. Men hav advantages at some things; women at other things.
Why else would you be so obsessed with the
idea of being a little girl, having babies, and so forth?
My senses tell
me that you are in fact jealous of women, for whatever ungodly reason.
Not *jealous* ... a bit envious of them being able to decide to have a baby and
do it; which men cannot. Oh, it takes a *tiny* bit of "help: from a man ... But
there are enough men willing to fuck anything female; so that's not really a
problem.
You live in a little fantasy world, and hold this idealized image of the
female experience. You think it's cake... and I'm here to tell you...
it's not cake.
Never thought it was cake.
Never thought raising a kid was cake ... It wasn't.
But (unlike many) I thought it was well worth the price.

And no: I don't *live* in a fantasy world.
You confuse the fact that I have fantasies with what I normally think and do.
LOL Both genders have their pros and cons; you seem to be
fixated on the former, as it applies to women. I've yet to decide
whether you ignore the negatives on purpose (so as not to spoil your
fantasy), or if you are in fact THAT callow, concerning the female
lifestyle.
I *know* there are many negatives to being a woman; not the least of which is
the lack-of-respect by most men. Add that to lower pay-scales, and it SUCKS.
Being the "weaker sex" means you can't just power your way to things like some
men (not me) do.

But there are complementary advantages as well:
Women are the deciders (in our society) as to who has sex.
Women decide how many babies the family has.
Women live longer than men.
Women (overall) are healthier than men.

It pretty much balances overall, in my opinion.
But I guess it really depends on what you value, whether the overall advantages
are with the women or with the men. If you value respect, strength, high-pay,
or being a loner; then men have it all over women ... in our society, at least.

I value having and raising kids.
To many people (both men AND women) that's a negative; not something to be
sought. Just holding a baby in my arms for a few hours makes my week.

Having raised *one* child to maturity; I'd gladly do it all over again six times
... Only (sadly) I'm now getting way too old for that ... as is the wife.
;-{
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-19 23:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Uh, it could just be my imagination, but *YOU* appear to be the one who
views women as superiors.
NOT superiors; nor inferiors either.
Just different. Men hav advantages at some things; women at other things.
Why else would you be so obsessed with the
idea of being a little girl, having babies, and so forth?
My senses tell
me that you are in fact jealous of women, for whatever ungodly reason.
Not *jealous* ... a bit envious of them being able to decide to have a baby and
do it; which men cannot. Oh, it takes a *tiny* bit of "help: from a man ... But
there are enough men willing to fuck anything female; so that's not really a
problem.
There's nothing to be envious of; women are, for the most part, pathetic.

Yes, I despise the members of my own gender. I seem to be one of the few
who is opposed to the emasculation of men. Harebrained female logic
assumes that mass feminization will achieve equality.... uh... WRONG. I
don't think I'll ever understand why guys have little difficulty imposing
their will on subjects like abortion, equal pay, women in positions of
power..etc, yet find themselves reduced to pussy-whipped putty balls when
pressured to cater to the ridiculous whims of some man-hating bimbo
whore, whose only objective is to transform them into the lesbian lover
she always dreamed of; just 5 minutes shy of a literal castration. One
word: Metrosexual. Need I say more?
Post by Frank McCoy
You live in a little fantasy world, and hold this idealized image of the
female experience. You think it's cake... and I'm here to tell you...
it's not cake.
Never thought it was cake.
Never thought raising a kid was cake ... It wasn't.
But (unlike many) I thought it was well worth the price.
And no: I don't *live* in a fantasy world.
You confuse the fact that I have fantasies with what I normally think and do.
No, I'm just saying that one's sexual fantasies are typically a good
indicator of their personal views and beliefs, where the opposite sex is
concerned.
Post by Frank McCoy
LOL Both genders have their pros and cons; you seem to be
fixated on the former, as it applies to women. I've yet to decide
whether you ignore the negatives on purpose (so as not to spoil your
fantasy), or if you are in fact THAT callow, concerning the female
lifestyle.
I *know* there are many negatives to being a woman; not the least of which is
the lack-of-respect by most men. Add that to lower pay-scales, and it SUCKS.
Being the "weaker sex" means you can't just power your way to things like some
men (not me) do.
Well, I can see how it "sucks" to be a man, especially these days. Women
get far more attention than they deserve... while the guys sit around
feeling unwanted, unloved... and worst of all, unattractive. It's
RIDICULOUS! When a man is sexy, it's not because he's trying to be... he
just IS. Male sex appeal is totally natural & uncorrupted, until some
bitch gets her hooks into him, and convinces him that his beautiful male
form is somehow *offensive*... which leads to such abominations of Nature
as body hair removal, the use of various cosmetic products, *trendy* hair
styles with loads of hairspray, manicures... and other crap that WAS NOT
MEANT FOR A MAN. Given the current situation, I predict that all *REAL*
men will be extinct by the year 2015. Words cannot express how much
disgust and contempt I have for my fellow females.
--
And the Stupid CUNT Lifetime achievement award goes to:

Camille Grammer.. AKA The Gold-digging closet lesbian
who suggested the *brilliant* idea of laser hair removal &
back-waxing to her gorgeous, much-undeserved husband.

Everyone knows it's a SIN to rob a teddy bear of his fur.

Here's hoping you experience permenant facial paralasis,
when you crawl back into Fake-Bitches-R-Us for your next
Botox injection, you insipid, ignominious, rotting shell of a woman.
Frank McCoy
2006-04-20 03:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
Well, I can see how it "sucks" to be a man, especially these days. Women
get far more attention than they deserve... while the guys sit around
feeling unwanted, unloved... and worst of all, unattractive. It's
RIDICULOUS! When a man is sexy, it's not because he's trying to be... he
just IS. Male sex appeal is totally natural & uncorrupted, until some
bitch gets her hooks into him, and convinces him that his beautiful male
form is somehow *offensive*... which leads to such abominations of Nature
as body hair removal, the use of various cosmetic products, *trendy* hair
styles with loads of hairspray, manicures... and other crap that WAS NOT
MEANT FOR A MAN. Given the current situation, I predict that all *REAL*
men will be extinct by the year 2015. Words cannot express how much
disgust and contempt I have for my fellow females.
Um ... I think women are more beautiful than men are ... quite naturally; as
they've been selected for millennia if not far longer, for physical beauty.
Men, OTOH, have been selected for three sometimes contradictory characteristics.
1. Physical strength to beat off all the competitors.
(and sometimes rape the women)
2. The ability to *seduce* women by convincing people of their sincerity.
That, strangely enough, rarely has to do with *real* sincerity.
3. The ability to be a good provider.

The last is what generally *keeps* a woman.
The first two are more-often what *attract* women.
"Nice guys" rarely figure into the mix, except as a bonus; as you *can* be a
nice guy and still have at least one of the three above characteristics; and
possibly even two or more. But while women *say* what they want is a nice guy;
rarely indeed do they seem to *pick* a man because he's a nice guy.

That's not to say men are any better in *their* choosing of women.
The old joke goes:
The CEO was picking out a new secretary.
#1 Was intelligent and skilled at the job.
#2 Was young, witty and learned fast.
#3 Had many jobs before, including secretary.
Q. Which one did he pick?
.
.
.
.
A. The one with the big tits, of course!

Sad, when you think about it ... for both sexes.
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-20 07:16:04 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Well, I can see how it "sucks" to be a man, especially these days. Women
get far more attention than they deserve... while the guys sit around
feeling unwanted, unloved... and worst of all, unattractive. It's
RIDICULOUS! When a man is sexy, it's not because he's trying to be... he
just IS. Male sex appeal is totally natural & uncorrupted, until some
bitch gets her hooks into him, and convinces him that his beautiful male
form is somehow *offensive*... which leads to such abominations of Nature
as body hair removal, the use of various cosmetic products, *trendy* hair
styles with loads of hairspray, manicures... and other crap that WAS NOT
MEANT FOR A MAN. Given the current situation, I predict that all *REAL*
men will be extinct by the year 2015. Words cannot express how much
disgust and contempt I have for my fellow females.
Um ... I think women are more beautiful than men are ... quite naturally; as
they've been selected for millennia if not far longer, for physical beauty.
You think women are more physically attractive than men for two reasons:

1. You're a heterosexual male - As such, you seem to forget that there
are two groups of people, heterosexual females & homosexual males, who
would disagree with you STRONGLY.

2. That is what modern day society & the media have pounded into your
skull - You know, in ancient Rome, the female body was considered
inferior to that of a man's. Women were expected to cover themselves
completely, while men were allowed to wear as much or as little clothing
as they desired. Even in their works of art, female nudity was frowned
upon, but nude depictions of men were highly regarded, and phallic
sculptures abounded. And then there were the Greeks... whom, at a
certain point in time, believed women were SO inferior, that sex with
another man was, to them, a far more appealing option.


The thing that irritates me most about men (of the heterosexual variety),
is that they are so single-minded. They seem to think that just because
*THEY* find women more aesthetically pleasing, then surely this
preference must apply to everyone else. You cannot state your OPINION as
fact, Frank. You believe that women are beautiful... I believe that men
have more beauty than they realize, and that it is far beyond ANYTHING a
woman could ever be capable of. I'm sorry, but I find the female form
displeasing to my eyes... particularly the genitalia. Geee... why could
that be??? Hmmm... maybe it's because I'm a straight woman in every
sense of the word. Honestly, I'm sick and tired of having to explain WHY
I find men attractive. Why should I? From my perspective... it's called
NORMAL. These days, if a woman isn't bisexual, she's treated like some
type of outcast or enigma; I find that a bit ironic. *smirk*

The whole thing is very crazy. I can recall a conversation in which I
mentioned how fond I am of large testicles... and I get this *look* from
the other participants, as if there's something WRONG with *ME*. HA!
And then of course, the men are first in line to degrade themselves; one
in particular states that a man's balls are the quote "ugliest part of a
guy's body". This type of attitude is the very thing that repels me from
even having open, honest conversations with anyone. Such narrow-minded
reactions force me to stuff most of my opinions on sex, which is
frustrating beyond description, and also VERY unfair. But, no matter
what anybody says.. I am NOT going to apologize for my love of the
penis... nor will I burden myself with guilt for feeling something which
is perfectly natural. Of course I don't find women appealing... I have a
vagina of my own, which was designed for the use of a MAN. And I think
the body of a man, especially a hairy one, is the sexiest thing in the
entire world. DEAL WITH IT.
--
And the Stupid CUNT Lifetime achievement award goes to:

Camille Grammer.. AKA The Gold-digging closet lesbian
who suggested the *brilliant* idea of laser hair removal &
back-waxing to her gorgeous, much-undeserved husband.

Everyone knows it's a SIN to rob a teddy bear of his fur.

Here's hoping you experience permenant facial paralasis,
when you crawl back into Fake-Bitches-R-Us for your next
Botox injection, you insipid, ignominious, rotting shell of a woman.
Frank McCoy
2006-04-20 15:03:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Well, I can see how it "sucks" to be a man, especially these days. Women
get far more attention than they deserve... while the guys sit around
feeling unwanted, unloved... and worst of all, unattractive. It's
RIDICULOUS! When a man is sexy, it's not because he's trying to be... he
just IS. Male sex appeal is totally natural & uncorrupted, until some
bitch gets her hooks into him, and convinces him that his beautiful male
form is somehow *offensive*... which leads to such abominations of Nature
as body hair removal, the use of various cosmetic products, *trendy* hair
styles with loads of hairspray, manicures... and other crap that WAS NOT
MEANT FOR A MAN. Given the current situation, I predict that all *REAL*
men will be extinct by the year 2015. Words cannot express how much
disgust and contempt I have for my fellow females.
Um ... I think women are more beautiful than men are ... quite naturally; as
they've been selected for millennia if not far longer, for physical beauty.
1. You're a heterosexual male - As such, you seem to forget that there
are two groups of people, heterosexual females & homosexual males, who
would disagree with you STRONGLY.
Funny:
MOST heterosexual women I've met agree with me quite readily.
In fact, they've told ME that, without my asking.

You must associate with a different group of women.
Post by Twinkle Toes
2. That is what modern day society & the media have pounded into your
skull - You know, in ancient Rome, the female body was considered
inferior to that of a man's. Women were expected to cover themselves
completely, while men were allowed to wear as much or as little clothing
as they desired. Even in their works of art, female nudity was frowned
upon, but nude depictions of men were highly regarded, and phallic
sculptures abounded. And then there were the Greeks... whom, at a
certain point in time, believed women were SO inferior, that sex with
another man was, to them, a far more appealing option.
The thing that irritates me most about men (of the heterosexual variety),
is that they are so single-minded. They seem to think that just because
*THEY* find women more aesthetically pleasing, then surely this
preference must apply to everyone else. You cannot state your OPINION as
fact, Frank. You believe that women are beautiful... I believe that men
have more beauty than they realize, and that it is far beyond ANYTHING a
woman could ever be capable of. I'm sorry, but I find the female form
displeasing to my eyes... particularly the genitalia. Geee... why could
that be??? Hmmm... maybe it's because I'm a straight woman in every
sense of the word. Honestly, I'm sick and tired of having to explain WHY
I find men attractive. Why should I? From my perspective... it's called
NORMAL. These days, if a woman isn't bisexual, she's treated like some
type of outcast or enigma; I find that a bit ironic. *smirk*
The whole thing is very crazy. I can recall a conversation in which I
mentioned how fond I am of large testicles... and I get this *look* from
the other participants, as if there's something WRONG with *ME*. HA!
Nothing wrong there. A bit different; but who's the idiot to say it's wrong?
Certainly not me!

Some men are "chest" men.
Some men are "leg" men.
That some woman would be a "testicle" woman is no surprise.
Post by Twinkle Toes
And then of course, the men are first in line to degrade themselves; one
in particular states that a man's balls are the quote "ugliest part of a
guy's body". This type of attitude is the very thing that repels me from
even having open, honest conversations with anyone. Such narrow-minded
I didn't SAY men are ugly.
I said women are more beautiful.
If you take the "standard" definitions of beauty:
Smooth clear skin.
Symmetrical features.
Healthy body.
Clear complexion.
Faces close to the "baby" ideal.
Clear eyes.
No overly-large features (nose, ears, etc.).
And several others ...

Then women in their prime (around 16-30, on average) definitely fit the
description more than men in their prime (18-35 on average).

There are quite obviously many exceptions to the "average" above; with some
people peaking in beauty younger (Leann Rimes, frex) and others looking good way
into what we'd call "old age". Some men are *incredibly* handsome; and some
women need to wear a bag over their faces (and vice-versa: "The Elephant Man").

I'm not saying men are unattractive to women.
I'm just saying that the average woman at her peak *usually* outshines the
average man at his peak ... And that's not just to men sexually attracted to
women; but *most* people.

Perhaps you don't find women beautiful.
That would be a shame.

I find many men handsome; and figure they probably would be incredibly
attractive to most women. But often the very thing that *makes* them attractive
and handsome does not correspond with our society's views of physical beauty.

Strangely, the thing *most* people think of as "beauty" in men: Rock-hard
muscles like the muscle-beach guys, don't really turn either men or women on
that much at all. It seems to be more of a self-esteem thing than attracting
sexual partners.
Post by Twinkle Toes
reactions force me to stuff most of my opinions on sex, which is
frustrating beyond description, and also VERY unfair. But, no matter
what anybody says.. I am NOT going to apologize for my love of the
penis... nor will I burden myself with guilt for feeling something which
is perfectly natural.
Some people think the actual sexual-apparatus, whether a penis on a man or a
vagina on a woman is/are ugly. Many women think a penis is ugly; and many men
think a vagina is ugly ... even though they both enjoy the use of said item when
offered.

I don't.
I think the idea of sex or sexual parts being ugly is idiotic and a matter of
somebody being brainwashed at a young age into thinking sex itself is ugly,
nasty, and sinful. A ridiculous (but common) idea fostered by many of the
mainstream religions these days.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Of course I don't find women appealing... I have a
vagina of my own, which was designed for the use of a MAN. And I think
the body of a man, especially a hairy one, is the sexiest thing in the
entire world. DEAL WITH IT.
Huh?
I have no problem with that.
You're the one who seems to be getting all uptight about it.
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-22 00:57:01 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Well, I can see how it "sucks" to be a man, especially these days. Women
get far more attention than they deserve... while the guys sit around
feeling unwanted, unloved... and worst of all, unattractive. It's
RIDICULOUS! When a man is sexy, it's not because he's trying to be... he
just IS. Male sex appeal is totally natural & uncorrupted, until some
bitch gets her hooks into him, and convinces him that his beautiful male
form is somehow *offensive*... which leads to such abominations of Nature
as body hair removal, the use of various cosmetic products, *trendy* hair
styles with loads of hairspray, manicures... and other crap that WAS NOT
MEANT FOR A MAN. Given the current situation, I predict that all *REAL*
men will be extinct by the year 2015. Words cannot express how much
disgust and contempt I have for my fellow females.
Um ... I think women are more beautiful than men are ... quite naturally; as
they've been selected for millennia if not far longer, for physical beauty.
1. You're a heterosexual male - As such, you seem to forget that there
are two groups of people, heterosexual females & homosexual males, who
would disagree with you STRONGLY.
MOST heterosexual women I've met agree with me quite readily.
In fact, they've told ME that, without my asking.
If they find women more attractive than men, they are NOT straight,
that's for sure. You see, many lesbians pose as heterosexuals. There
can be a variety of reasons... fear of public scrutiny for being gay is a
big one.
Post by Frank McCoy
You must associate with a different group of women.
I'm not sure what that means, really.

I've found that most women are
afraid to express their more lustful thoughts about men, in a public
environment, especially in the presence of men. But usually, I am able
to get them going on the topic. LOL Sometimes, as mentioned previously,
I get strange looks, because I'm so honest... or as some would choose to
call it.. blunt. I do, however, prefer the company of male friends to
female friends, as I am not a fan of chick flix, Oprah, or other drivel
that some females tend to fixate on.
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
2. That is what modern day society & the media have pounded into your
skull - You know, in ancient Rome, the female body was considered
inferior to that of a man's. Women were expected to cover themselves
completely, while men were allowed to wear as much or as little clothing
as they desired. Even in their works of art, female nudity was frowned
upon, but nude depictions of men were highly regarded, and phallic
sculptures abounded. And then there were the Greeks... whom, at a
certain point in time, believed women were SO inferior, that sex with
another man was, to them, a far more appealing option.
The thing that irritates me most about men (of the heterosexual variety),
is that they are so single-minded. They seem to think that just because
*THEY* find women more aesthetically pleasing, then surely this
preference must apply to everyone else. You cannot state your OPINION as
fact, Frank. You believe that women are beautiful... I believe that men
have more beauty than they realize, and that it is far beyond ANYTHING a
woman could ever be capable of. I'm sorry, but I find the female form
displeasing to my eyes... particularly the genitalia. Geee... why could
that be??? Hmmm... maybe it's because I'm a straight woman in every
sense of the word. Honestly, I'm sick and tired of having to explain WHY
I find men attractive. Why should I? From my perspective... it's called
NORMAL. These days, if a woman isn't bisexual, she's treated like some
type of outcast or enigma; I find that a bit ironic. *smirk*
The whole thing is very crazy. I can recall a conversation in which I
mentioned how fond I am of large testicles... and I get this *look* from
the other participants, as if there's something WRONG with *ME*. HA!
Nothing wrong there. A bit different; but who's the idiot to say it's wrong?
Certainly not me!
Some men are "chest" men.
Some men are "leg" men.
That some woman would be a "testicle" woman is no surprise.
Post by Twinkle Toes
And then of course, the men are first in line to degrade themselves; one
in particular states that a man's balls are the quote "ugliest part of a
guy's body". This type of attitude is the very thing that repels me from
even having open, honest conversations with anyone. Such narrow-minded
I didn't SAY men are ugly.
I said women are more beautiful.
And that is your opinion.
Post by Frank McCoy
Smooth clear skin.
Symmetrical features.
Healthy body.
Clear complexion.
Faces close to the "baby" ideal.
Clear eyes.
No overly-large features (nose, ears, etc.).
And several others ...
Most of these are the standard definitions of *FEMALE* beauty. Allow me
to present *MY* list of things I find attractive, in regard to *MALE*
beauty:

* Chest hair & just body hair in general; especially the really curly
variety. It's subliminal....
it gives one a good idea of what his pubic hair looks like. Men who have
none, or worse yet, shave it.. have a great opportunity to be IGNORED by
me.

* A deep, sensuous, baritone voice.

* Sturdy, semi-rough, masculine hands. Double bingo if they have those
sexy little veins protruding from them.

* Eyes are VERY important. I like the ones that look sort of angelic one
minute, and evil the next.

* A strong jawline.

* An ass that is semi-tight, square-shaped, which lifts near the belt
line & slopes slightly at the meeting of the legs.

* A nice husky body, overall. Not fat, mind you... but not skinny
either. Medium muscle tone, with a little spare flesh (love handles) on
the sides, to hang onto.

* Average length penis, which is slightly above-average in width, with a
button mushroom shaped head. I prefer large, round, fuzzy testicles...
but as long as they are at least fuzzy, I'm happy.


As for your mention of smooth skin, I am turned off by such things. One
of my BIG fetishes, is the 5 o'clock stubble. Just feeling it rub
against my skin gets me hot.
Post by Frank McCoy
Then women in their prime (around 16-30, on average) definitely fit the
description more than men in their prime (18-35 on average).
Excuse me... BUT... you can't compare male standards of beauty with those
of a female. What is sexy for a woman is NOT sexy for a man. Wake up,
Frank.... you're massively confused.
Post by Frank McCoy
There are quite obviously many exceptions to the "average" above;
Your "average above" only applies to women.
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm not saying men are unattractive to women.
I don't think you have ANYTHING to say, in the matter of what attracts
women to men. You're a heterosexual male, and as such, a lousy judge of
your gender's sex appeal factors. Only a heterosexual woman or gay man
can make valid observation of such things.

Or to put this in this in proper perspective:

Leave the critiquing to the connoisseurs. ; )
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm just saying that the average woman at her peak *usually* outshines the
average man at his peak ... And that's not just to men sexually attracted to
women; but *most* people.
Once again, that's YOUR opinion, not fact.
Post by Frank McCoy
Perhaps you don't find women beautiful.
That would be a shame.
How is that a shame? As individuals, we all have our own idea of what is
visually pleasing to us. Does it bother you because you cannot persuade
me to see things *your way*? I find NO shame in my appreciation of the
male body. I live in a female body, so pardon me if I don't find other
women's bodies spectacular. There's nothing exciting about viewing
something I already possess, myself.
Post by Frank McCoy
I find many men handsome; and figure they probably would be incredibly
attractive to most women. But often the very thing that *makes* them attractive
and handsome does not correspond with our society's views of physical beauty.
I personally don't care about "society's views", where standards of
beauty are concerned. That's your problem... you're a media whore. Turn
off your TV once in a while.
Post by Frank McCoy
Strangely, the thing *most* people think of as "beauty" in men: Rock-hard
muscles like the muscle-beach guys, don't really turn either men or women on
that much at all. It seems to be more of a self-esteem thing than attracting
sexual partners.
Post by Twinkle Toes
reactions force me to stuff most of my opinions on sex, which is
frustrating beyond description, and also VERY unfair. But, no matter
what anybody says.. I am NOT going to apologize for my love of the
penis... nor will I burden myself with guilt for feeling something which
is perfectly natural.
Some people think the actual sexual-apparatus, whether a penis on a man or a
vagina on a woman is/are ugly. Many women think a penis is ugly; and many men
think a vagina is ugly ... even though they both enjoy the use of said item when
offered.
I don't.
I think the idea of sex or sexual parts being ugly is idiotic and a matter of
somebody being brainwashed at a young age into thinking sex itself is ugly,
nasty, and sinful. A ridiculous (but common) idea fostered by many of the
mainstream religions these days.
LOL Uh oh, there you go again, with your nutty rant about sexual
repression. I assure you I did not grow up in such an environment. In
fact, my mother was far too open about sexual matters. As for religion,
I'm Agnostic, but was raised in a primarily Pagan household.
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Of course I don't find women appealing... I have a
vagina of my own, which was designed for the use of a MAN. And I think
the body of a man, especially a hairy one, is the sexiest thing in the
entire world. DEAL WITH IT.
Huh?
I have no problem with that.
You're the one who seems to be getting all uptight about it.
I have a funny way of getting uptight when I see pro-feminization of men,
everywhere I look. I'm also agitated by certain people who think "it's a
shame" just because I find men far more attractive than women.
--
And the Stupid CUNT Lifetime achievement award goes to:

Camille Grammer.. AKA The Gold-digging closet lesbian
who suggested the *brilliant* idea of laser hair removal &
back-waxing to her gorgeous, much-undeserved husband.

Everyone knows it's a SIN to rob a teddy bear of his fur.

Here's hoping you experience permenant facial paralasis,
when you crawl back into Fake-Bitches-R-Us for your next
Botox injection, you insipid, ignominious, rotting shell of a woman.
Frank McCoy
2006-04-22 04:27:46 UTC
Permalink
In alt.fan.frank.mccoy Twinkle Toes <***@noteven.net> wrote:

[Massive SNIP]
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
reactions force me to stuff most of my opinions on sex, which is
frustrating beyond description, and also VERY unfair. But, no matter
what anybody says.. I am NOT going to apologize for my love of the
penis... nor will I burden myself with guilt for feeling something which
is perfectly natural.
Some people think the actual sexual-apparatus, whether a penis on a man or a
vagina on a woman is/are ugly. Many women think a penis is ugly; and many men
think a vagina is ugly ... even though they both enjoy the use of said item when
offered.
I don't.
I think the idea of sex or sexual parts being ugly is idiotic and a matter of
somebody being brainwashed at a young age into thinking sex itself is ugly,
nasty, and sinful. A ridiculous (but common) idea fostered by many of the
mainstream religions these days.
LOL Uh oh, there you go again, with your nutty rant about sexual
repression. I assure you I did not grow up in such an environment. In
fact, my mother was far too open about sexual matters. As for religion,
I'm Agnostic, but was raised in a primarily Pagan household.
So?
Maybe that's why *you* don't have that funny idea that the penis is ugly.
YOU weren't raised in the environment of those who do.
How is what you say contradicting what I said?
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-22 16:14:41 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
[Massive SNIP]
Oh, was the the remainder of my post not important enough for you to
reply to?
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
reactions force me to stuff most of my opinions on sex, which is
frustrating beyond description, and also VERY unfair. But, no matter
what anybody says.. I am NOT going to apologize for my love of the
penis... nor will I burden myself with guilt for feeling something which
is perfectly natural.
Some people think the actual sexual-apparatus, whether a penis on a man or a
vagina on a woman is/are ugly. Many women think a penis is ugly; and many men
think a vagina is ugly ... even though they both enjoy the use of said item when
offered.
I don't.
I think the idea of sex or sexual parts being ugly is idiotic and a matter of
somebody being brainwashed at a young age into thinking sex itself is ugly,
nasty, and sinful. A ridiculous (but common) idea fostered by many of the
mainstream religions these days.
LOL Uh oh, there you go again, with your nutty rant about sexual
repression. I assure you I did not grow up in such an environment. In
fact, my mother was far too open about sexual matters. As for religion,
I'm Agnostic, but was raised in a primarily Pagan household.
So?
Maybe that's why *you* don't have that funny idea that the penis is ugly.
YOU weren't raised in the environment of those who do.
How is what you say contradicting what I said?
It contradicts your MANY assumptions made about my upbringing. You may
have conveniently forgotten, but in ASGL, you accused me of being that
*type* of person, just because I am opposed to pedophilia.
--
And the Stupid CUNT Lifetime achievement award goes to:

Camille Grammer.. AKA The Gold-digging closet lesbian
who suggested the *brilliant* idea of laser hair removal &
back-waxing to her gorgeous, much-undeserved husband.

Everyone knows it's a SIN to rob a teddy bear of his fur.

Here's hoping you experience permenant facial paralasis,
when you crawl back into Fake-Bitches-R-Us for your next
Botox injection, you insipid, ignominious, rotting shell of a woman.
Frank McCoy
2006-04-22 21:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
[Massive SNIP]
Oh, was the the remainder of my post not important enough for you to
reply to?
Nope ... Just that we've both made our positions clear ... And continuing
arguing on those points is ... well, pointless.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
reactions force me to stuff most of my opinions on sex, which is
frustrating beyond description, and also VERY unfair. But, no matter
what anybody says.. I am NOT going to apologize for my love of the
penis... nor will I burden myself with guilt for feeling something which
is perfectly natural.
Some people think the actual sexual-apparatus, whether a penis on a man or a
vagina on a woman is/are ugly. Many women think a penis is ugly; and many men
think a vagina is ugly ... even though they both enjoy the use of said item when
offered.
I don't.
I think the idea of sex or sexual parts being ugly is idiotic and a matter of
somebody being brainwashed at a young age into thinking sex itself is ugly,
nasty, and sinful. A ridiculous (but common) idea fostered by many of the
mainstream religions these days.
LOL Uh oh, there you go again, with your nutty rant about sexual
repression. I assure you I did not grow up in such an environment. In
fact, my mother was far too open about sexual matters. As for religion,
I'm Agnostic, but was raised in a primarily Pagan household.
So?
Maybe that's why *you* don't have that funny idea that the penis is ugly.
YOU weren't raised in the environment of those who do.
How is what you say contradicting what I said?
It contradicts your MANY assumptions made about my upbringing. You may
have conveniently forgotten, but in ASGL, you accused me of being that
*type* of person, just because I am opposed to pedophilia.
As I recall, (I'd have to check again to make sure) my remarks were more of the
type that people opposed to what *I* believe were more often raised that way,
than accusing you of being so. If you felt the shoe fit; well, possibly.

Actually, it depends on what you define as "pedophilia" as to whether you and I
disagree on many things. I suspect, from our ongoing conversations, that
there's a lot of overlap in agreement as well as considerable disagreement.

But then: It's no fun just agreeing on everything.
What's the point?
Nothing new is ever learned.
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-23 03:10:46 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Frank McCoy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by Frank McCoy
[Massive SNIP]
Oh, was the remainder of my post not important enough for you to
reply to?
Nope ... Just that we've both made our positions clear ... And continuing
arguing on those points is ... well, pointless.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by Twinkle Toes
reactions force me to stuff most of my opinions on sex, which is
frustrating beyond description, and also VERY unfair. But, no matter
what anybody says.. I am NOT going to apologize for my love of the
penis... nor will I burden myself with guilt for feeling something which
is perfectly natural.
Some people think the actual sexual-apparatus, whether a penis on a man or a
vagina on a woman is/are ugly. Many women think a penis is ugly; and many men
think a vagina is ugly ... even though they both enjoy the use of said item when
offered.
I don't.
I think the idea of sex or sexual parts being ugly is idiotic and a matter of
somebody being brainwashed at a young age into thinking sex itself is ugly,
nasty, and sinful. A ridiculous (but common) idea fostered by many of the
mainstream religions these days.
LOL Uh oh, there you go again, with your nutty rant about sexual
repression. I assure you I did not grow up in such an environment. In
fact, my mother was far too open about sexual matters. As for religion,
I'm Agnostic, but was raised in a primarily Pagan household.
So?
Maybe that's why *you* don't have that funny idea that the penis is ugly.
YOU weren't raised in the environment of those who do.
How is what you say contradicting what I said?
It contradicts your MANY assumptions made about my upbringing. You may
have conveniently forgotten, but in ASGL, you accused me of being that
*type* of person, just because I am opposed to pedophilia.
As I recall, (I'd have to check again to make sure) my remarks were more of the
type that people opposed to what *I* believe were more often raised that way,
than accusing you of being so. If you felt the shoe fit; well, possibly.
It's just that you've been brainwashed into believing that sex is bad, sex is
evil, and therefore, "Anybody who teaches a child to enjoy sex is teaching that
child to enjoy being evil!" The ultimate crime, if you swallow that religious
view.
As you can see, this statement was aimed directly at me. You made
massively incorrect assumptions.
Post by Frank McCoy
Actually, it depends on what you define as "pedophilia" as to whether you and I
disagree on many things. I suspect, from our ongoing conversations, that
there's a lot of overlap in agreement as well as considerable disagreement.
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply both to the
act of having sex with children & the actual condition of being sexually
attracted to them. I define a *child* as someone who is physically
and/or mentally underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions. It is none of my business what others choose to fantasize
about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell, making statements to the
effect of "if it's old enough to say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"...
then yes, I find it deeply disturbing, and will not hesitate to jump on
his case. When people can no longer distinguish fantasy from reality,
problems arise... BIG ones. Expressing your arousal over a particular
perversion is one thing, claiming you should have a legal right to act
upon said desires is a whole 'nother matter, entirely. And,
unfortunately the latter has became a frequent occurrence in ASGL & ASBL.
What level of savagery would this country degrade to, if everyone was
allowed to do anything they want, just because it *turns them on*??? We
don't need another Thailand, Africa, or Haiti. Like it or not, any half-
way civilized nation has it's rules & regulations that citizens are
expected to abide by. Some ARE worthy of being challenged, but I fail to
see the *great injustice* in age of consent laws. There are FAR more
pressing issues to address than, whether or not a pedophile is being
allowed to get his rocks off with some *young stuff*. The worst argument
yet, presented by pedo-poster-boy Kidwell, is that it's *for the
children*. Aha Aha Ahahaha! Riiiiiight. Rather than admit to his own
lust-driven motives, he conveniently plops the burden off onto the
shoulders of these allegedly repressed children, who are supposedly
crying out for the right to jump into his, or any other adult's pants. I
think it goes without saying that, even IF such laws were abolished,
Chrissy will NEVER see a line of eager school girls, forming outside his
front door. LOLOLOL *ahem* Anyhow, the age of consent in my state is
16; I see nothing wrong with this. It seems reasonable, since one has
only a few short years to enjoy the innocence of childhood... and a vast
amount of time to live life on adult terms. They have decades of
possible broken hearts, STDs, infidelities..etc, ahead of them. A mere
16 years of childish, carefree abandon is hardly a death sentence. Are
they going to get curious about sex before that time? Of course! But
they don't need some horny adult taking advantage of that curiosity. If
Kidwell and company were TRULY interested in the welfare of children,
they wouldn't be posting half the crap they do. Supposing a child under
the age of 16 decides to have sex with someone, who is also underaged...
well, THAT is not illegal, unless one of them was forced into the act.
So, there you have it... IF they cannot wait, they can always experiment
with someone of the same age. Does that not solve the *raging hormones*
issue? And does it not ALSO prove that Kidwell is only out for
himself??? If two underaged youths can legally have sex with each other,
they don't need adults... perhaps THAT is what is eating at Chrissy.
*smirk*
--
And the Stupid CUNT Lifetime achievement award goes to:

Camille Grammer.. AKA The Gold-digging closet lesbian
who suggested the *brilliant* idea of laser hair removal &
back-waxing to her gorgeous, much-undeserved husband.

Everyone knows it's a SIN to rob a teddy bear of his fur.

Here's hoping you experience permenant facial paralasis,
when you crawl back into Fake-Bitches-R-Us for your next
Botox injection, you insipid, ignominious, rotting shell of a woman.
c***@comcast.net
2006-04-23 06:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Twinkle Toes wrote:

-snip-

Everything goes that I have heard before, and that is bullshit.

As I have said before, adults are no more taking advantage of children
when they have sex with them, than another child younger than them or
the same age as them would be!

It's people like you, who think "They are tricking children into sex",
that are wrong! That is your MAIN point, that we are somehow 'tricking'
children into sex by just asking them "Do you want me to touch your
privates?" or waiting until THEY ask us to touch their privates.

Apparently, asking someone to touch your privates is okay when both
people are adults, but NOT when they are drasticallly differing ages or
one is a child and one is an adult? Explain to me why that is?

Guess what? You can't and I know that your only response is going to be
"You EEEEVVVVIIIILLLL pedophile! Preying on our -sniff- poor helpless
children!"
Guess what, children are NOT helpless anymore, one accusation of sexual
abuse or rape, false or not, and a person's life is RUINED and they
will be in jail for the rest of their lives!
Children have ALL the power in sexual relationships now, not adults.
Adults have PHYSICAL power, but the CHILDREN have all the legal and
emotional power, because anytime an adult does something they don't
like, sexual or not, they can go whining to mommy and daddy saying
"Daddy! -sniff- Uncle * touched my privates!", and that person will go
to jail IMMEDIATELY, whether or NOT there is ANY proof that the person
actually did it, or did it again the child's will or word.
I've seen children do that MANY times, and have had them try to do that
to me, that is why I have CC cameras in my home, recording EVERYTHING
that me and the children do together!

I've heard the bullshit before Twinkle Toes, and have pointed out why
it is bullshit in MANY of my previous posts, shooting it down with
nuclear weapons and MORE everytime people bring it up, so I am NOT
going to bother to do it again here.

You people just are CRIMINALLY JEALOUS of children, and the fact that
they can enjoy sex WITHOUT the consequence of pregnancy in most cases,
at least until they are 7-9 years old, and even after that, if they get
the pill or birth control shot.
You are too hung up on your twisted 'morals' to do that, because you
think that some 'god' is going to punish you if you do that, when that
is NOT the case, because your 'god' is GONE FOREVER! GONE AND DEAD!
Otherwise, why wouldn't he have punished us for even DARING to create
the birth-control pill?

Sure, children are just as susceptible to sexual disease as adults are
(no more or less, unlike you and others keep on bringing up, proven by
studies by the NIH and other organizations), but that problem could be
solved easily (at least with curable STD's like chlamydia, syphilis and
gonorhhea) by making EVERYONE in the world take the strongest
antibiotic we have available for one WEEK!
Then, no more chlamydia, gonorhhea or syphilis, they would be TOTALLY
wiped out, because using the strongest antibiotics against them, there
would be NO chance for them to mutate and become resistant, because
they would ALL die at the same time.
Even if we DID find them again, we would just have to treat the person
who DIDN'T get the treatment the first time, and the people he had sex
with and the people THEY had sex with!
Pretty soon, you won't even have AIDS to rely on in your arguments,
because they are testing a vaccine in children and adults for the HIV
virus, which I am also helping to test, and it seems to work very well!

Once there are NO consequences from sexual activity in childhood and
even in adulthood and the only things you have to rely on are false
religious arguments, WHAT WILL YOU DO THEN? WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN THE
CHILDREN REALIZE YOU ARE FULL OF BULLSHIT, LIKE ALL THE CHILDREN I HAVE
TALKED TO HAVE WITHOUT HELP FROM ME?!

Will you start a holy war against your OWN CHILDREN, because they have
rejected your false morals? Will you circumcise and torture their
genitals, because they are not following your false religious beliefs
anymore? Will you torture them sexually with pins and needles, like
some religious extremists do? Will you kill them, like some extremists
and NOT-extremist catholics, muslims, and jews do, in order to 'protect
their honor'?

What will you do?????

I am frightened for the children, and what you will do when they do NOT
have to worry about consequences from sexual activity anymore, like my
children don't.
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-23 20:35:36 UTC
Permalink
ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by c***@comcast.net
-snip-
Everything goes that I have heard before, and that is bullshit.
As I have said before, adults are no more taking advantage of children
when they have sex with them, than another child younger than them or
the same age as them would be!
It's people like you, who think "They are tricking children into sex",
that are wrong! That is your MAIN point, that we are somehow 'tricking'
children into sex by just asking them "Do you want me to touch your
privates?" or waiting until THEY ask us to touch their privates.
Apparently, asking someone to touch your privates is okay when both
people are adults, but NOT when they are drasticallly differing ages or
one is a child and one is an adult? Explain to me why that is?
Guess what? You can't and I know that your only response is going to be
"You EEEEVVVVIIIILLLL pedophile! Preying on our -sniff- poor helpless
children!"
Guess what, children are NOT helpless anymore, one accusation of sexual
abuse or rape, false or not, and a person's life is RUINED and they
will be in jail for the rest of their lives!
Children have ALL the power in sexual relationships now, not adults.
Adults have PHYSICAL power, but the CHILDREN have all the legal and
emotional power, because anytime an adult does something they don't
like, sexual or not, they can go whining to mommy and daddy saying
"Daddy! -sniff- Uncle * touched my privates!", and that person will go
to jail IMMEDIATELY, whether or NOT there is ANY proof that the person
actually did it, or did it again the child's will or word.
I've seen children do that MANY times, and have had them try to do that
to me, that is why I have CC cameras in my home, recording EVERYTHING
that me and the children do together!
I've heard the bullshit before Twinkle Toes, and have pointed out why
it is bullshit in MANY of my previous posts, shooting it down with
nuclear weapons and MORE everytime people bring it up, so I am NOT
going to bother to do it again here.
You people just are CRIMINALLY JEALOUS of children, and the fact that
they can enjoy sex WITHOUT the consequence of pregnancy in most cases,
at least until they are 7-9 years old, and even after that, if they get
the pill or birth control shot.
You are too hung up on your twisted 'morals' to do that, because you
think that some 'god' is going to punish you if you do that, when that
is NOT the case, because your 'god' is GONE FOREVER! GONE AND DEAD!
Otherwise, why wouldn't he have punished us for even DARING to create
the birth-control pill?
Sure, children are just as susceptible to sexual disease as adults are
(no more or less, unlike you and others keep on bringing up, proven by
studies by the NIH and other organizations), but that problem could be
solved easily (at least with curable STD's like chlamydia, syphilis and
gonorhhea) by making EVERYONE in the world take the strongest
antibiotic we have available for one WEEK!
Then, no more chlamydia, gonorhhea or syphilis, they would be TOTALLY
wiped out, because using the strongest antibiotics against them, there
would be NO chance for them to mutate and become resistant, because
they would ALL die at the same time.
Even if we DID find them again, we would just have to treat the person
who DIDN'T get the treatment the first time, and the people he had sex
with and the people THEY had sex with!
Pretty soon, you won't even have AIDS to rely on in your arguments,
because they are testing a vaccine in children and adults for the HIV
virus, which I am also helping to test, and it seems to work very well!
Once there are NO consequences from sexual activity in childhood and
even in adulthood and the only things you have to rely on are false
religious arguments, WHAT WILL YOU DO THEN? WHAT WILL YOU DO WHEN THE
CHILDREN REALIZE YOU ARE FULL OF BULLSHIT, LIKE ALL THE CHILDREN I HAVE
TALKED TO HAVE WITHOUT HELP FROM ME?!
Will you start a holy war against your OWN CHILDREN, because they have
rejected your false morals? Will you circumcise and torture their
genitals, because they are not following your false religious beliefs
anymore? Will you torture them sexually with pins and needles, like
some religious extremists do? Will you kill them, like some extremists
and NOT-extremist catholics, muslims, and jews do, in order to 'protect
their honor'?
What will you do?????
I am frightened for the children, and what you will do when they do NOT
have to worry about consequences from sexual activity anymore, like my
children don't.
*slap* Get back in your cage... don't make me get the hose.
--
And the Stupid CUNT Lifetime achievement award goes to:

Camille Grammer.. AKA The Gold-digging closet lesbian
who suggested the *brilliant* idea of laser hair removal &
back-waxing to her gorgeous, much-undeserved husband.

Everyone knows it's a SIN to rob a teddy bear of his fur.

Here's hoping you experience permenant facial paralasis,
when you crawl back into Fake-Bitches-R-Us for your next
Botox injection, you insipid, ignominious, rotting shell of a woman.
BusyGuy
2006-04-23 08:04:53 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@supernews.netrelated.com>,
Twinkle Toes <***@noteven.net> wrote:


At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
Post by Twinkle Toes
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply both to the
act of having sex with children & the actual condition of being sexually
attracted to them.
That could be the fault of ignorant journalists who love to put their
pretty faces and empty heads on television. Pedophilia is not commonly
considered to be the act of having sex with children, it is more
usually applied to the mental state of being attracted (usually
sexually attracted) to children. And specifically to pre-pubescent
children, at that.

Usenet trolls and other sundry morons occasionally misuse the word
deliberately, for their own agendas.

The act of having sex with children is called, by opponents, "child
sexual abuse" and, by others...well, a variety of names, really.
Post by Twinkle Toes
I define a *child* as someone who is physically
and/or mentally underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions.
I think that's a mistake. "Child" has a legal meaning, which differs
from juridiction to jurisdiction. It also has an everyday meaning and I
do not think your definition fits the common meaning.

Your definition would encompass adults with a developmental disability.
Such people can present _as_ children but are _not_ children in the
accepted sense, i think.

I suggest that, if the debate is about pedophilia, the word "child"
should refer to a pre-pubertal person. If the debate is about the law,
the word should refer to a person under the age of consent in the
jurisdiction in question. If the debate is about societal attitudes,
perhaps the word should be omitted on the ground of ambiguity or
uncertainty.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It is none of my business what others choose to fantasize
about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell, making statements to the
effect of "if it's old enough to say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"...
Did he say that? I missed it.

"Have sex with" is also an emotion-charged and ambiguous term. i think
it, too, should not be used in any serious debate because no one knows
what the user means exactly.
Post by Twinkle Toes
What level of savagery would this country degrade to
Naughty naughty. Please don't be one of those who thinks _their_
country is the only one in the world.
Post by Twinkle Toes
, if everyone was
allowed to do anything they want, just because it *turns them on*??? We
don't need another Thailand
Huh?

1 Who says there is any such place where "everyone is allowed to do
anything [he] wants?"

2 Who is "we"

3 What is it about Thailand that offends those people you call "we" I
surely hope you are not saying that, in Thailand, everyone is allowed
to do anything he wants just because it turns him on and that this is
not alright with you.

Because (a) It is certainly not true that everyone has such a right in
Thailand; (b) if it were true, what business would it be of people
outside Thailand?
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I fail to
see the *great injustice* in age of consent laws.
Then you are in the right place. Here is a good place to debate such a
thing. Without all the bullshit that the trolls spread, the debate is a
worthy one and deserving of time from you and other intelligent
opponents and supporters. Both sides have valid points to make.

It's just a pity that the points are not being made in a greater forum,
where they would attract input from the offline community too, and
would catch the attention of the only people who can really make a
difference, the politicians.
Post by Twinkle Toes
There are FAR more
pressing issues to address than, whether or not a pedophile is being
allowed to get his rocks off with some *young stuff*.
Better, in any debate, to avoid pejoratives. It labels the user as
emotional rather than logical and often leads to diverting the debate
away from the issue into ad hominems.

You also demonstrate an error of logic here. Though there might be "far
more pressing issues", that is not a good reason to avoid debating
_this_ issue. If it were, the whole world would be constrained to
debate just one issue. (And the Big Argument would be "which issue?")
Post by Twinkle Toes
The worst argument
yet, presented by pedo-poster-boy Kidwell, is that it's *for the
children*.
Yes, there are many things about Christopher's posts that I don't agree
with.

Wasting time arguing with trolls is one of them.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I
think it goes without saying that, even IF such laws were abolished,
Chrissy will NEVER see a line of eager school girls, forming outside his
front door.
This is an example of the sort of ad hominem i think everyone should
avoid. Worse, in fact. It's a specious, unnecessarily-provocative and
silly comment. Sorry. I don't think he ever said that and it is fatuous
to imply that he did.

Even a dedicated and committed pedophile does not fantasize about such
a situation. Instead, most of them dream of having one consenting
partner with whom a genuine affection can be shared ‹ with or without
physical activity ‹ in the absence of strong disapproval from others
who have, in the opinion of the pedophile, no proper ground to become
involved.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...the age of consent in my state is
16; I see nothing wrong with this.
I understand. If you grow up having cornflakes for breakfast every
morning, chances are you will find it "weird" that the guy down the
road prefers eggs on toast.

People (let's say, just for the argument) who live in an American state
where the age of consent is 18, would think your state's age of consent
is too liberal. People in your state would think that, over there in
the neighboring state where the age of consent is 14, things are way
too liberal.

Many people in general in America will think that Canada is too liberal.

Many in Canada will think that Australia is too liberal.

Many in Australia will think that New Zealand is too liberal.

Many in New Zealand will think that Western Europe is too liberal.

Many in Western Europe will think that Japan is too liberal.

Many in Japan will think that the former Soviet Union is too liberal.

Many people in general in America will think that China is too
conservative.

Many in China will think that Pakistan is too conservative.

Many in Pakistan will think that Afghanistan is too conservative.

Many in Afghanistan will think that Iran is too conservative.

Many in Iran will think that North Korea is too conservative.

Yet almost everyone is moderably content. It's all a matter of what
you're used to.

The big problem, in my view, is that America thinks it has the right
but, worse, almost alone, also has the power, to tell the rest of the
world how to behave. Funny how America somehow seems to be the only
place to have gotten everything "just right."

You can be sure that it's not just the folks in North Korea and Russia
who think America should just keep its fucking big trap shut and its
strong-arm bully-boy tactics at home. You must surely have noticed how
most of the world holds a deep disaffection for Washington. Pity most
Americans themselves are such nice people.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It seems reasonable, since one has
only a few short years to enjoy the innocence of childhood
"Innocence" is a word widely-misused, in my opinion. The word needed is
"ignorance." The antonym of "innocence" is "guilt" and I see no reason
why the passage from childhood to adulthood should bring on a flood of
guilt. Unless you happen to be a christian and believe all that
bullshit about gardens and apples.

The antonym of "ignorance" is "knowledge" and i think that's way more
appropriate when talking about children and their awareness of sexual
matters. But "the ignorance of childhood" is out of favor because
"ignorant" has acquired a whiff of disapproving personal attack that it
does not deserve.
Post by Twinkle Toes
... A mere
16 years of childish, carefree abandon is hardly a death sentence.
Again, I do not think such an argument is presented by pedophiles. They
don't, I think, want to "rescue" all children from what they see as a
"death sentence." Your use of emotive language weakens your
presentation.

I think what they want is for other people to stop telling specific
kids that they cannot do what _they_ (the kids) want to do simply
because it's a sexual matter and therefore proscribed for, in the
opinion of the pedophile, no good reason.

Try this mental exercise:‹

Adult: "You must not engage in sexual activity."

Child: Why?"

Adult: "Because at your age it is wrong."

Child: "Why?"

Adult: "Because you want to do it with a much older person. That is
doubly-wrong."

Child: "Why?"

Now, to be honest, I don't know what might be said next. You fill in
the rest.

I think many parents want to say "Sex per se is dirty and bad. I cannot
stop other adults but I sure can stop you." A liberal will respond "but
why is is dirty and bad?" Frankly, I have NEVER seen a valid response
to that earth-shattering question. Most people believe it is a truism
so they assume no one will question it. They go ahead from that stance
and say that kids should be delayed from entering that "dirty" world as
long as possible. But ask them why is sex dirty and they scramble to
change the subject. Because I don't think there is any valid answer.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are
they going to get curious about sex before that time?
People get curious about sex when they get curious about sex. Before
age 16, are you asking? Hell yes!

Here's another little exercise for conservatives to try: Wait till you
make a new acquaintance with a kid who does not know you are a
conservative. (I don't mean you personally. I don't know if you're a
conservative or not. I think so, but it's polite to wait till you say
so.)

Develop a conversational relationship with the kid. Sooner or later,
the kid will disclose something you disapprove of. BITE YOUR FUCKING
TONGUE !!! say _nothing_ that would give even the smallest hint to the
kid that you are in any way surprised or disapproving of what you have
just been told.

Continue the conversational relationship. Maybe for hours, maybe for
days, maybe for weeks. Eventually, you will be told that the kid is
waaaaay more experienced in matters of a sexual nature than you would
ever imagine in your wildest dreams or that you would ever accept from
a pedophile giving you an opinion. Take the Reality Test. i dare you.

There is a huge communication gulf between kids and adults because they
know that the adult will dump on them as soon as they open up. So they
stay quiet and the only adults who know about what kids really are
doing are the pedophiles, liberals and, to a lesser extent, the
school-teachers who cannot avoid overhearing things they sometimes wish
they did not. In a way, it's a private joke. The conservative parents
on one side, everyone else on the other. Trouble is, it stops being a
joke when an information leak occurs.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...If
Kidwell and company were TRULY interested in the welfare of children,
they wouldn't be posting half the crap they do.
I think some people are just inept at text-based conversation. For
sure, i will always prefer a face-to-face. Many people hold
badly-formed opinions or cannot find the words to properly express
them. Perhaps they just have a head full of wool. A second group pf
people will hold opinions that are just plain stupid and, more rarely,
a third group will hold an opinion that is dangerous. I think
Christopher fits into the first group.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Supposing a child under
the age of 16 decides to have sex with someone, who is also underaged...
well, THAT is not illegal
Sorry, it is illegal in most jurisdictions. And it has lead to some
horror stories right here in this group. The cruelty and downright
fucking moronic attitude of some lawmakers and law enforcers is too
strange for fiction. Only in America...
bobandcarole
2006-04-23 15:43:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
This isn't a "debate" moron
These men are CHILD MOLESTERS and no amount of "debate" will change
anything
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply both to the
act of having sex with children & the actual condition of being sexually
attracted to them.
That could be the fault of ignorant journalists who love to put their
pretty faces and empty heads on television. Pedophilia is not commonly
considered to be the act of having sex with children, it is more
usually applied to the mental state of being attracted (usually
sexually attracted) to children. And specifically to pre-pubescent
children, at that.
Usenet trolls and other sundry morons occasionally misuse the word
deliberately, for their own agendas.
The act of having sex with children is called, by opponents, "child
sexual abuse" and, by others...well, a variety of names, really.
Post by Twinkle Toes
I define a *child* as someone who is physically
and/or mentally underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions.
I think that's a mistake. "Child" has a legal meaning, which differs
from juridiction to jurisdiction. It also has an everyday meaning and I
do not think your definition fits the common meaning.
Your definition would encompass adults with a developmental disability.
Such people can present _as_ children but are _not_ children in the
accepted sense, i think.
I suggest that, if the debate is about pedophilia, the word "child"
should refer to a pre-pubertal person. If the debate is about the law,
the word should refer to a person under the age of consent in the
jurisdiction in question. If the debate is about societal attitudes,
perhaps the word should be omitted on the ground of ambiguity or
uncertainty.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It is none of my business what others choose to fantasize
about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell, making statements to the
effect of "if it's old enough to say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"...
Did he say that? I missed it.
"Have sex with" is also an emotion-charged and ambiguous term. i think
it, too, should not be used in any serious debate because no one knows
what the user means exactly.
Post by Twinkle Toes
What level of savagery would this country degrade to
Naughty naughty. Please don't be one of those who thinks _their_
country is the only one in the world.
Post by Twinkle Toes
, if everyone was
allowed to do anything they want, just because it *turns them on*??? We
don't need another Thailand
Huh?
1 Who says there is any such place where "everyone is allowed to do
anything [he] wants?"
2 Who is "we"
3 What is it about Thailand that offends those people you call "we" I
surely hope you are not saying that, in Thailand, everyone is allowed
to do anything he wants just because it turns him on and that this is
not alright with you.
Because (a) It is certainly not true that everyone has such a right in
Thailand; (b) if it were true, what business would it be of people
outside Thailand?
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I fail to
see the *great injustice* in age of consent laws.
Then you are in the right place. Here is a good place to debate such a
thing. Without all the bullshit that the trolls spread, the debate is a
worthy one and deserving of time from you and other intelligent
opponents and supporters. Both sides have valid points to make.
It's just a pity that the points are not being made in a greater forum,
where they would attract input from the offline community too, and
would catch the attention of the only people who can really make a
difference, the politicians.
Post by Twinkle Toes
There are FAR more
pressing issues to address than, whether or not a pedophile is being
allowed to get his rocks off with some *young stuff*.
Better, in any debate, to avoid pejoratives. It labels the user as
emotional rather than logical and often leads to diverting the debate
away from the issue into ad hominems.
You also demonstrate an error of logic here. Though there might be "far
more pressing issues", that is not a good reason to avoid debating
_this_ issue. If it were, the whole world would be constrained to
debate just one issue. (And the Big Argument would be "which issue?")
Post by Twinkle Toes
The worst argument
yet, presented by pedo-poster-boy Kidwell, is that it's *for the
children*.
Yes, there are many things about Christopher's posts that I don't agree
with.
Wasting time arguing with trolls is one of them.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I
think it goes without saying that, even IF such laws were abolished,
Chrissy will NEVER see a line of eager school girls, forming outside his
front door.
This is an example of the sort of ad hominem i think everyone should
avoid. Worse, in fact. It's a specious, unnecessarily-provocative and
silly comment. Sorry. I don't think he ever said that and it is fatuous
to imply that he did.
Even a dedicated and committed pedophile does not fantasize about such
a situation. Instead, most of them dream of having one consenting
partner with whom a genuine affection can be shared ‹ with or without
physical activity ‹ in the absence of strong disapproval from others
who have, in the opinion of the pedophile, no proper ground to become
involved.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...the age of consent in my state is
16; I see nothing wrong with this.
I understand. If you grow up having cornflakes for breakfast every
morning, chances are you will find it "weird" that the guy down the
road prefers eggs on toast.
People (let's say, just for the argument) who live in an American state
where the age of consent is 18, would think your state's age of consent
is too liberal. People in your state would think that, over there in
the neighboring state where the age of consent is 14, things are way
too liberal.
Many people in general in America will think that Canada is too liberal.
Many in Canada will think that Australia is too liberal.
Many in Australia will think that New Zealand is too liberal.
Many in New Zealand will think that Western Europe is too liberal.
Many in Western Europe will think that Japan is too liberal.
Many in Japan will think that the former Soviet Union is too liberal.
Many people in general in America will think that China is too
conservative.
Many in China will think that Pakistan is too conservative.
Many in Pakistan will think that Afghanistan is too conservative.
Many in Afghanistan will think that Iran is too conservative.
Many in Iran will think that North Korea is too conservative.
Yet almost everyone is moderably content. It's all a matter of what
you're used to.
The big problem, in my view, is that America thinks it has the right
but, worse, almost alone, also has the power, to tell the rest of the
world how to behave. Funny how America somehow seems to be the only
place to have gotten everything "just right."
You can be sure that it's not just the folks in North Korea and Russia
who think America should just keep its fucking big trap shut and its
strong-arm bully-boy tactics at home. You must surely have noticed how
most of the world holds a deep disaffection for Washington. Pity most
Americans themselves are such nice people.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It seems reasonable, since one has
only a few short years to enjoy the innocence of childhood
"Innocence" is a word widely-misused, in my opinion. The word needed is
"ignorance." The antonym of "innocence" is "guilt" and I see no reason
why the passage from childhood to adulthood should bring on a flood of
guilt. Unless you happen to be a christian and believe all that
bullshit about gardens and apples.
The antonym of "ignorance" is "knowledge" and i think that's way more
appropriate when talking about children and their awareness of sexual
matters. But "the ignorance of childhood" is out of favor because
"ignorant" has acquired a whiff of disapproving personal attack that it
does not deserve.
Post by Twinkle Toes
... A mere
16 years of childish, carefree abandon is hardly a death sentence.
Again, I do not think such an argument is presented by pedophiles. They
don't, I think, want to "rescue" all children from what they see as a
"death sentence." Your use of emotive language weakens your
presentation.
I think what they want is for other people to stop telling specific
kids that they cannot do what _they_ (the kids) want to do simply
because it's a sexual matter and therefore proscribed for, in the
opinion of the pedophile, no good reason.
Try this mental exercise:‹
Adult: "You must not engage in sexual activity."
Child: Why?"
Adult: "Because at your age it is wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Adult: "Because you want to do it with a much older person. That is
doubly-wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Now, to be honest, I don't know what might be said next. You fill in
the rest.
I think many parents want to say "Sex per se is dirty and bad. I cannot
stop other adults but I sure can stop you." A liberal will respond "but
why is is dirty and bad?" Frankly, I have NEVER seen a valid response
to that earth-shattering question. Most people believe it is a truism
so they assume no one will question it. They go ahead from that stance
and say that kids should be delayed from entering that "dirty" world as
long as possible. But ask them why is sex dirty and they scramble to
change the subject. Because I don't think there is any valid answer.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are
they going to get curious about sex before that time?
People get curious about sex when they get curious about sex. Before
age 16, are you asking? Hell yes!
Here's another little exercise for conservatives to try: Wait till you
make a new acquaintance with a kid who does not know you are a
conservative. (I don't mean you personally. I don't know if you're a
conservative or not. I think so, but it's polite to wait till you say
so.)
Develop a conversational relationship with the kid. Sooner or later,
the kid will disclose something you disapprove of. BITE YOUR FUCKING
TONGUE !!! say _nothing_ that would give even the smallest hint to the
kid that you are in any way surprised or disapproving of what you have
just been told.
Continue the conversational relationship. Maybe for hours, maybe for
days, maybe for weeks. Eventually, you will be told that the kid is
waaaaay more experienced in matters of a sexual nature than you would
ever imagine in your wildest dreams or that you would ever accept from
a pedophile giving you an opinion. Take the Reality Test. i dare you.
There is a huge communication gulf between kids and adults because they
know that the adult will dump on them as soon as they open up. So they
stay quiet and the only adults who know about what kids really are
doing are the pedophiles, liberals and, to a lesser extent, the
school-teachers who cannot avoid overhearing things they sometimes wish
they did not. In a way, it's a private joke. The conservative parents
on one side, everyone else on the other. Trouble is, it stops being a
joke when an information leak occurs.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...If
Kidwell and company were TRULY interested in the welfare of children,
they wouldn't be posting half the crap they do.
I think some people are just inept at text-based conversation. For
sure, i will always prefer a face-to-face. Many people hold
badly-formed opinions or cannot find the words to properly express
them. Perhaps they just have a head full of wool. A second group pf
people will hold opinions that are just plain stupid and, more rarely,
a third group will hold an opinion that is dangerous. I think
Christopher fits into the first group.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Supposing a child under
the age of 16 decides to have sex with someone, who is also underaged...
well, THAT is not illegal
Sorry, it is illegal in most jurisdictions. And it has lead to some
horror stories right here in this group. The cruelty and downright
fucking moronic attitude of some lawmakers and law enforcers is too
strange for fiction. Only in America...
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-23 20:43:47 UTC
Permalink
bobandcarole ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
This isn't a "debate" moron
These men are CHILD MOLESTERS and no amount of "debate" will change
anything
Ahhhh... the refreshing honesty of bobandcarol; Listerine of Usenet. ; )
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply both to the
act of having sex with children & the actual condition of being sexually
attracted to them.
That could be the fault of ignorant journalists who love to put their
pretty faces and empty heads on television. Pedophilia is not commonly
considered to be the act of having sex with children, it is more
usually applied to the mental state of being attracted (usually
sexually attracted) to children. And specifically to pre-pubescent
children, at that.
Usenet trolls and other sundry morons occasionally misuse the word
deliberately, for their own agendas.
The act of having sex with children is called, by opponents, "child
sexual abuse" and, by others...well, a variety of names, really.
Post by Twinkle Toes
I define a *child* as someone who is physically
and/or mentally underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions.
I think that's a mistake. "Child" has a legal meaning, which differs
from juridiction to jurisdiction. It also has an everyday meaning and I
do not think your definition fits the common meaning.
Your definition would encompass adults with a developmental disability.
Such people can present _as_ children but are _not_ children in the
accepted sense, i think.
I suggest that, if the debate is about pedophilia, the word "child"
should refer to a pre-pubertal person. If the debate is about the law,
the word should refer to a person under the age of consent in the
jurisdiction in question. If the debate is about societal attitudes,
perhaps the word should be omitted on the ground of ambiguity or
uncertainty.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It is none of my business what others choose to fantasize
about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell, making statements to the
effect of "if it's old enough to say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"...
Did he say that? I missed it.
"Have sex with" is also an emotion-charged and ambiguous term. i think
it, too, should not be used in any serious debate because no one knows
what the user means exactly.
Post by Twinkle Toes
What level of savagery would this country degrade to
Naughty naughty. Please don't be one of those who thinks _their_
country is the only one in the world.
Post by Twinkle Toes
, if everyone was
allowed to do anything they want, just because it *turns them on*??? We
don't need another Thailand
Huh?
1 Who says there is any such place where "everyone is allowed to do
anything [he] wants?"
2 Who is "we"
3 What is it about Thailand that offends those people you call "we" I
surely hope you are not saying that, in Thailand, everyone is allowed
to do anything he wants just because it turns him on and that this is
not alright with you.
Because (a) It is certainly not true that everyone has such a right in
Thailand; (b) if it were true, what business would it be of people
outside Thailand?
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I fail to
see the *great injustice* in age of consent laws.
Then you are in the right place. Here is a good place to debate such a
thing. Without all the bullshit that the trolls spread, the debate is a
worthy one and deserving of time from you and other intelligent
opponents and supporters. Both sides have valid points to make.
It's just a pity that the points are not being made in a greater forum,
where they would attract input from the offline community too, and
would catch the attention of the only people who can really make a
difference, the politicians.
Post by Twinkle Toes
There are FAR more
pressing issues to address than, whether or not a pedophile is being
allowed to get his rocks off with some *young stuff*.
Better, in any debate, to avoid pejoratives. It labels the user as
emotional rather than logical and often leads to diverting the debate
away from the issue into ad hominems.
You also demonstrate an error of logic here. Though there might be "far
more pressing issues", that is not a good reason to avoid debating
_this_ issue. If it were, the whole world would be constrained to
debate just one issue. (And the Big Argument would be "which issue?")
Post by Twinkle Toes
The worst argument
yet, presented by pedo-poster-boy Kidwell, is that it's *for the
children*.
Yes, there are many things about Christopher's posts that I don't agree
with.
Wasting time arguing with trolls is one of them.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I
think it goes without saying that, even IF such laws were abolished,
Chrissy will NEVER see a line of eager school girls, forming outside his
front door.
This is an example of the sort of ad hominem i think everyone should
avoid. Worse, in fact. It's a specious, unnecessarily-provocative and
silly comment. Sorry. I don't think he ever said that and it is fatuous
to imply that he did.
Even a dedicated and committed pedophile does not fantasize about such
a situation. Instead, most of them dream of having one consenting
partner with whom a genuine affection can be shared ? with or without
physical activity ? in the absence of strong disapproval from others
who have, in the opinion of the pedophile, no proper ground to become
involved.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...the age of consent in my state is
16; I see nothing wrong with this.
I understand. If you grow up having cornflakes for breakfast every
morning, chances are you will find it "weird" that the guy down the
road prefers eggs on toast.
People (let's say, just for the argument) who live in an American state
where the age of consent is 18, would think your state's age of consent
is too liberal. People in your state would think that, over there in
the neighboring state where the age of consent is 14, things are way
too liberal.
Many people in general in America will think that Canada is too liberal.
Many in Canada will think that Australia is too liberal.
Many in Australia will think that New Zealand is too liberal.
Many in New Zealand will think that Western Europe is too liberal.
Many in Western Europe will think that Japan is too liberal.
Many in Japan will think that the former Soviet Union is too liberal.
Many people in general in America will think that China is too
conservative.
Many in China will think that Pakistan is too conservative.
Many in Pakistan will think that Afghanistan is too conservative.
Many in Afghanistan will think that Iran is too conservative.
Many in Iran will think that North Korea is too conservative.
Yet almost everyone is moderably content. It's all a matter of what
you're used to.
The big problem, in my view, is that America thinks it has the right
but, worse, almost alone, also has the power, to tell the rest of the
world how to behave. Funny how America somehow seems to be the only
place to have gotten everything "just right."
You can be sure that it's not just the folks in North Korea and Russia
who think America should just keep its fucking big trap shut and its
strong-arm bully-boy tactics at home. You must surely have noticed how
most of the world holds a deep disaffection for Washington. Pity most
Americans themselves are such nice people.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It seems reasonable, since one has
only a few short years to enjoy the innocence of childhood
"Innocence" is a word widely-misused, in my opinion. The word needed is
"ignorance." The antonym of "innocence" is "guilt" and I see no reason
why the passage from childhood to adulthood should bring on a flood of
guilt. Unless you happen to be a christian and believe all that
bullshit about gardens and apples.
The antonym of "ignorance" is "knowledge" and i think that's way more
appropriate when talking about children and their awareness of sexual
matters. But "the ignorance of childhood" is out of favor because
"ignorant" has acquired a whiff of disapproving personal attack that it
does not deserve.
Post by Twinkle Toes
... A mere
16 years of childish, carefree abandon is hardly a death sentence.
Again, I do not think such an argument is presented by pedophiles. They
don't, I think, want to "rescue" all children from what they see as a
"death sentence." Your use of emotive language weakens your
presentation.
I think what they want is for other people to stop telling specific
kids that they cannot do what _they_ (the kids) want to do simply
because it's a sexual matter and therefore proscribed for, in the
opinion of the pedophile, no good reason.
Try this mental exercise:?
Adult: "You must not engage in sexual activity."
Child: Why?"
Adult: "Because at your age it is wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Adult: "Because you want to do it with a much older person. That is
doubly-wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Now, to be honest, I don't know what might be said next. You fill in
the rest.
I think many parents want to say "Sex per se is dirty and bad. I cannot
stop other adults but I sure can stop you." A liberal will respond "but
why is is dirty and bad?" Frankly, I have NEVER seen a valid response
to that earth-shattering question. Most people believe it is a truism
so they assume no one will question it. They go ahead from that stance
and say that kids should be delayed from entering that "dirty" world as
long as possible. But ask them why is sex dirty and they scramble to
change the subject. Because I don't think there is any valid answer.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are
they going to get curious about sex before that time?
People get curious about sex when they get curious about sex. Before
age 16, are you asking? Hell yes!
Here's another little exercise for conservatives to try: Wait till you
make a new acquaintance with a kid who does not know you are a
conservative. (I don't mean you personally. I don't know if you're a
conservative or not. I think so, but it's polite to wait till you say
so.)
Develop a conversational relationship with the kid. Sooner or later,
the kid will disclose something you disapprove of. BITE YOUR FUCKING
TONGUE !!! say _nothing_ that would give even the smallest hint to the
kid that you are in any way surprised or disapproving of what you have
just been told.
Continue the conversational relationship. Maybe for hours, maybe for
days, maybe for weeks. Eventually, you will be told that the kid is
waaaaay more experienced in matters of a sexual nature than you would
ever imagine in your wildest dreams or that you would ever accept from
a pedophile giving you an opinion. Take the Reality Test. i dare you.
There is a huge communication gulf between kids and adults because they
know that the adult will dump on them as soon as they open up. So they
stay quiet and the only adults who know about what kids really are
doing are the pedophiles, liberals and, to a lesser extent, the
school-teachers who cannot avoid overhearing things they sometimes wish
they did not. In a way, it's a private joke. The conservative parents
on one side, everyone else on the other. Trouble is, it stops being a
joke when an information leak occurs.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...If
Kidwell and company were TRULY interested in the welfare of children,
they wouldn't be posting half the crap they do.
I think some people are just inept at text-based conversation. For
sure, i will always prefer a face-to-face. Many people hold
badly-formed opinions or cannot find the words to properly express
them. Perhaps they just have a head full of wool. A second group pf
people will hold opinions that are just plain stupid and, more rarely,
a third group will hold an opinion that is dangerous. I think
Christopher fits into the first group.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Supposing a child under
the age of 16 decides to have sex with someone, who is also underaged...
well, THAT is not illegal
Sorry, it is illegal in most jurisdictions. And it has lead to some
horror stories right here in this group. The cruelty and downright
fucking moronic attitude of some lawmakers and law enforcers is too
strange for fiction. Only in America...
bobandcarole
2006-04-23 22:38:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
bobandcarole ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
This isn't a "debate" moron
These men are CHILD MOLESTERS and no amount of "debate" will change
anything
Ahhhh... the refreshing honesty of bobandcarol; Listerine of Usenet. ; )
Sorry for the 'moron' barb LT..I was in a hurry and didn't realize that
was you
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply both to the
act of having sex with children & the actual condition of being sexually
attracted to them.
That could be the fault of ignorant journalists who love to put their
pretty faces and empty heads on television. Pedophilia is not commonly
considered to be the act of having sex with children, it is more
usually applied to the mental state of being attracted (usually
sexually attracted) to children. And specifically to pre-pubescent
children, at that.
Usenet trolls and other sundry morons occasionally misuse the word
deliberately, for their own agendas.
The act of having sex with children is called, by opponents, "child
sexual abuse" and, by others...well, a variety of names, really.
Post by Twinkle Toes
I define a *child* as someone who is physically
and/or mentally underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions.
I think that's a mistake. "Child" has a legal meaning, which differs
from juridiction to jurisdiction. It also has an everyday meaning and I
do not think your definition fits the common meaning.
Your definition would encompass adults with a developmental disability.
Such people can present _as_ children but are _not_ children in the
accepted sense, i think.
I suggest that, if the debate is about pedophilia, the word "child"
should refer to a pre-pubertal person. If the debate is about the law,
the word should refer to a person under the age of consent in the
jurisdiction in question. If the debate is about societal attitudes,
perhaps the word should be omitted on the ground of ambiguity or
uncertainty.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It is none of my business what others choose to fantasize
about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell, making statements to the
effect of "if it's old enough to say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"...
Did he say that? I missed it.
"Have sex with" is also an emotion-charged and ambiguous term. i think
it, too, should not be used in any serious debate because no one knows
what the user means exactly.
Post by Twinkle Toes
What level of savagery would this country degrade to
Naughty naughty. Please don't be one of those who thinks _their_
country is the only one in the world.
Post by Twinkle Toes
, if everyone was
allowed to do anything they want, just because it *turns them on*??? We
don't need another Thailand
Huh?
1 Who says there is any such place where "everyone is allowed to do
anything [he] wants?"
2 Who is "we"
3 What is it about Thailand that offends those people you call "we" I
surely hope you are not saying that, in Thailand, everyone is allowed
to do anything he wants just because it turns him on and that this is
not alright with you.
Because (a) It is certainly not true that everyone has such a right in
Thailand; (b) if it were true, what business would it be of people
outside Thailand?
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I fail to
see the *great injustice* in age of consent laws.
Then you are in the right place. Here is a good place to debate such a
thing. Without all the bullshit that the trolls spread, the debate is a
worthy one and deserving of time from you and other intelligent
opponents and supporters. Both sides have valid points to make.
It's just a pity that the points are not being made in a greater forum,
where they would attract input from the offline community too, and
would catch the attention of the only people who can really make a
difference, the politicians.
Post by Twinkle Toes
There are FAR more
pressing issues to address than, whether or not a pedophile is being
allowed to get his rocks off with some *young stuff*.
Better, in any debate, to avoid pejoratives. It labels the user as
emotional rather than logical and often leads to diverting the debate
away from the issue into ad hominems.
You also demonstrate an error of logic here. Though there might be "far
more pressing issues", that is not a good reason to avoid debating
_this_ issue. If it were, the whole world would be constrained to
debate just one issue. (And the Big Argument would be "which issue?")
Post by Twinkle Toes
The worst argument
yet, presented by pedo-poster-boy Kidwell, is that it's *for the
children*.
Yes, there are many things about Christopher's posts that I don't agree
with.
Wasting time arguing with trolls is one of them.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I
think it goes without saying that, even IF such laws were abolished,
Chrissy will NEVER see a line of eager school girls, forming outside his
front door.
This is an example of the sort of ad hominem i think everyone should
avoid. Worse, in fact. It's a specious, unnecessarily-provocative and
silly comment. Sorry. I don't think he ever said that and it is fatuous
to imply that he did.
Even a dedicated and committed pedophile does not fantasize about such
a situation. Instead, most of them dream of having one consenting
partner with whom a genuine affection can be shared ? with or without
physical activity ? in the absence of strong disapproval from others
who have, in the opinion of the pedophile, no proper ground to become
involved.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...the age of consent in my state is
16; I see nothing wrong with this.
I understand. If you grow up having cornflakes for breakfast every
morning, chances are you will find it "weird" that the guy down the
road prefers eggs on toast.
People (let's say, just for the argument) who live in an American state
where the age of consent is 18, would think your state's age of consent
is too liberal. People in your state would think that, over there in
the neighboring state where the age of consent is 14, things are way
too liberal.
Many people in general in America will think that Canada is too liberal.
Many in Canada will think that Australia is too liberal.
Many in Australia will think that New Zealand is too liberal.
Many in New Zealand will think that Western Europe is too liberal.
Many in Western Europe will think that Japan is too liberal.
Many in Japan will think that the former Soviet Union is too liberal.
Many people in general in America will think that China is too
conservative.
Many in China will think that Pakistan is too conservative.
Many in Pakistan will think that Afghanistan is too conservative.
Many in Afghanistan will think that Iran is too conservative.
Many in Iran will think that North Korea is too conservative.
Yet almost everyone is moderably content. It's all a matter of what
you're used to.
The big problem, in my view, is that America thinks it has the right
but, worse, almost alone, also has the power, to tell the rest of the
world how to behave. Funny how America somehow seems to be the only
place to have gotten everything "just right."
You can be sure that it's not just the folks in North Korea and Russia
who think America should just keep its fucking big trap shut and its
strong-arm bully-boy tactics at home. You must surely have noticed how
most of the world holds a deep disaffection for Washington. Pity most
Americans themselves are such nice people.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It seems reasonable, since one has
only a few short years to enjoy the innocence of childhood
"Innocence" is a word widely-misused, in my opinion. The word needed is
"ignorance." The antonym of "innocence" is "guilt" and I see no reason
why the passage from childhood to adulthood should bring on a flood of
guilt. Unless you happen to be a christian and believe all that
bullshit about gardens and apples.
The antonym of "ignorance" is "knowledge" and i think that's way more
appropriate when talking about children and their awareness of sexual
matters. But "the ignorance of childhood" is out of favor because
"ignorant" has acquired a whiff of disapproving personal attack that it
does not deserve.
Post by Twinkle Toes
... A mere
16 years of childish, carefree abandon is hardly a death sentence.
Again, I do not think such an argument is presented by pedophiles. They
don't, I think, want to "rescue" all children from what they see as a
"death sentence." Your use of emotive language weakens your
presentation.
I think what they want is for other people to stop telling specific
kids that they cannot do what _they_ (the kids) want to do simply
because it's a sexual matter and therefore proscribed for, in the
opinion of the pedophile, no good reason.
Try this mental exercise:?
Adult: "You must not engage in sexual activity."
Child: Why?"
Adult: "Because at your age it is wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Adult: "Because you want to do it with a much older person. That is
doubly-wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Now, to be honest, I don't know what might be said next. You fill in
the rest.
I think many parents want to say "Sex per se is dirty and bad. I cannot
stop other adults but I sure can stop you." A liberal will respond "but
why is is dirty and bad?" Frankly, I have NEVER seen a valid response
to that earth-shattering question. Most people believe it is a truism
so they assume no one will question it. They go ahead from that stance
and say that kids should be delayed from entering that "dirty" world as
long as possible. But ask them why is sex dirty and they scramble to
change the subject. Because I don't think there is any valid answer.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are
they going to get curious about sex before that time?
People get curious about sex when they get curious about sex. Before
age 16, are you asking? Hell yes!
Here's another little exercise for conservatives to try: Wait till you
make a new acquaintance with a kid who does not know you are a
conservative. (I don't mean you personally. I don't know if you're a
conservative or not. I think so, but it's polite to wait till you say
so.)
Develop a conversational relationship with the kid. Sooner or later,
the kid will disclose something you disapprove of. BITE YOUR FUCKING
TONGUE !!! say _nothing_ that would give even the smallest hint to the
kid that you are in any way surprised or disapproving of what you have
just been told.
Continue the conversational relationship. Maybe for hours, maybe for
days, maybe for weeks. Eventually, you will be told that the kid is
waaaaay more experienced in matters of a sexual nature than you would
ever imagine in your wildest dreams or that you would ever accept from
a pedophile giving you an opinion. Take the Reality Test. i dare you.
There is a huge communication gulf between kids and adults because they
know that the adult will dump on them as soon as they open up. So they
stay quiet and the only adults who know about what kids really are
doing are the pedophiles, liberals and, to a lesser extent, the
school-teachers who cannot avoid overhearing things they sometimes wish
they did not. In a way, it's a private joke. The conservative parents
on one side, everyone else on the other. Trouble is, it stops being a
joke when an information leak occurs.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...If
Kidwell and company were TRULY interested in the welfare of children,
they wouldn't be posting half the crap they do.
I think some people are just inept at text-based conversation. For
sure, i will always prefer a face-to-face. Many people hold
badly-formed opinions or cannot find the words to properly express
them. Perhaps they just have a head full of wool. A second group pf
people will hold opinions that are just plain stupid and, more rarely,
a third group will hold an opinion that is dangerous. I think
Christopher fits into the first group.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Supposing a child under
the age of 16 decides to have sex with someone, who is also underaged...
well, THAT is not illegal
Sorry, it is illegal in most jurisdictions. And it has lead to some
horror stories right here in this group. The cruelty and downright
fucking moronic attitude of some lawmakers and law enforcers is too
strange for fiction. Only in America...
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-23 23:08:02 UTC
Permalink
bobandcarole ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by bobandcarole
Post by Twinkle Toes
bobandcarole ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
This isn't a "debate" moron
These men are CHILD MOLESTERS and no amount of "debate" will change
anything
Ahhhh... the refreshing honesty of bobandcarol; Listerine of Usenet. ; )
Sorry for the 'moron' barb LT..I was in a hurry and didn't realize that
was you
Hmmm... from my point of observation, you were calling BusyGuy a moron.
*scratched head*
--
The problem with most female Trolls, is that their posts lack
entertainment value.

And then *I* came along.... : P
Wonderer
2006-04-24 02:16:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by bobandcarole
Post by Twinkle Toes
bobandcarole ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
This isn't a "debate" moron
These men are CHILD MOLESTERS and no amount of "debate" will change
anything
Ahhhh... the refreshing honesty of bobandcarol; Listerine of Usenet. ; )
Sorry for the 'moron' barb LT..I was in a hurry and didn't realize that
was you
you have upset her bob wath out for the harpoons
Post by bobandcarole
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply both to the
act of having sex with children & the actual condition of being sexually
attracted to them.
That could be the fault of ignorant journalists who love to put their
pretty faces and empty heads on television. Pedophilia is not commonly
considered to be the act of having sex with children, it is more
usually applied to the mental state of being attracted (usually
sexually attracted) to children. And specifically to pre-pubescent
children, at that.
Usenet trolls and other sundry morons occasionally misuse the word
deliberately, for their own agendas.
The act of having sex with children is called, by opponents, "child
sexual abuse" and, by others...well, a variety of names, really.
Post by Twinkle Toes
I define a *child* as someone who is physically
and/or mentally underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions.
I think that's a mistake. "Child" has a legal meaning, which differs
from juridiction to jurisdiction. It also has an everyday meaning and I
do not think your definition fits the common meaning.
Your definition would encompass adults with a developmental disability.
Such people can present _as_ children but are _not_ children in the
accepted sense, i think.
I suggest that, if the debate is about pedophilia, the word "child"
should refer to a pre-pubertal person. If the debate is about the law,
the word should refer to a person under the age of consent in the
jurisdiction in question. If the debate is about societal attitudes,
perhaps the word should be omitted on the ground of ambiguity or
uncertainty.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It is none of my business what others choose to fantasize
about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell, making statements to the
effect of "if it's old enough to say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"...
Did he say that? I missed it.
"Have sex with" is also an emotion-charged and ambiguous term. i think
it, too, should not be used in any serious debate because no one knows
what the user means exactly.
Post by Twinkle Toes
What level of savagery would this country degrade to
Naughty naughty. Please don't be one of those who thinks _their_
country is the only one in the world.
Post by Twinkle Toes
, if everyone was
allowed to do anything they want, just because it *turns them on*??? We
don't need another Thailand
Huh?
1 Who says there is any such place where "everyone is allowed to do
anything [he] wants?"
2 Who is "we"
3 What is it about Thailand that offends those people you call "we" I
surely hope you are not saying that, in Thailand, everyone is allowed
to do anything he wants just because it turns him on and that this is
not alright with you.
Because (a) It is certainly not true that everyone has such a right in
Thailand; (b) if it were true, what business would it be of people
outside Thailand?
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I fail to
see the *great injustice* in age of consent laws.
Then you are in the right place. Here is a good place to debate such a
thing. Without all the bullshit that the trolls spread, the debate is a
worthy one and deserving of time from you and other intelligent
opponents and supporters. Both sides have valid points to make.
It's just a pity that the points are not being made in a greater forum,
where they would attract input from the offline community too, and
would catch the attention of the only people who can really make a
difference, the politicians.
Post by Twinkle Toes
There are FAR more
pressing issues to address than, whether or not a pedophile is being
allowed to get his rocks off with some *young stuff*.
Better, in any debate, to avoid pejoratives. It labels the user as
emotional rather than logical and often leads to diverting the debate
away from the issue into ad hominems.
You also demonstrate an error of logic here. Though there might be "far
more pressing issues", that is not a good reason to avoid debating
_this_ issue. If it were, the whole world would be constrained to
debate just one issue. (And the Big Argument would be "which issue?")
Post by Twinkle Toes
The worst argument
yet, presented by pedo-poster-boy Kidwell, is that it's *for the
children*.
Yes, there are many things about Christopher's posts that I don't agree
with.
Wasting time arguing with trolls is one of them.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I
think it goes without saying that, even IF such laws were abolished,
Chrissy will NEVER see a line of eager school girls, forming outside his
front door.
This is an example of the sort of ad hominem i think everyone should
avoid. Worse, in fact. It's a specious, unnecessarily-provocative and
silly comment. Sorry. I don't think he ever said that and it is fatuous
to imply that he did.
Even a dedicated and committed pedophile does not fantasize about such
a situation. Instead, most of them dream of having one consenting
partner with whom a genuine affection can be shared ? with or without
physical activity ? in the absence of strong disapproval from others
who have, in the opinion of the pedophile, no proper ground to become
involved.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...the age of consent in my state is
16; I see nothing wrong with this.
I understand. If you grow up having cornflakes for breakfast every
morning, chances are you will find it "weird" that the guy down the
road prefers eggs on toast.
People (let's say, just for the argument) who live in an American state
where the age of consent is 18, would think your state's age of consent
is too liberal. People in your state would think that, over there in
the neighboring state where the age of consent is 14, things are way
too liberal.
Many people in general in America will think that Canada is too liberal.
Many in Canada will think that Australia is too liberal.
Many in Australia will think that New Zealand is too liberal.
Many in New Zealand will think that Western Europe is too liberal.
Many in Western Europe will think that Japan is too liberal.
Many in Japan will think that the former Soviet Union is too liberal.
Many people in general in America will think that China is too
conservative.
Many in China will think that Pakistan is too conservative.
Many in Pakistan will think that Afghanistan is too conservative.
Many in Afghanistan will think that Iran is too conservative.
Many in Iran will think that North Korea is too conservative.
Yet almost everyone is moderably content. It's all a matter of what
you're used to.
The big problem, in my view, is that America thinks it has the right
but, worse, almost alone, also has the power, to tell the rest of the
world how to behave. Funny how America somehow seems to be the only
place to have gotten everything "just right."
You can be sure that it's not just the folks in North Korea and Russia
who think America should just keep its fucking big trap shut and its
strong-arm bully-boy tactics at home. You must surely have noticed how
most of the world holds a deep disaffection for Washington. Pity most
Americans themselves are such nice people.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It seems reasonable, since one has
only a few short years to enjoy the innocence of childhood
"Innocence" is a word widely-misused, in my opinion. The word needed is
"ignorance." The antonym of "innocence" is "guilt" and I see no reason
why the passage from childhood to adulthood should bring on a flood of
guilt. Unless you happen to be a christian and believe all that
bullshit about gardens and apples.
The antonym of "ignorance" is "knowledge" and i think that's way more
appropriate when talking about children and their awareness of sexual
matters. But "the ignorance of childhood" is out of favor because
"ignorant" has acquired a whiff of disapproving personal attack that it
does not deserve.
Post by Twinkle Toes
... A mere
16 years of childish, carefree abandon is hardly a death sentence.
Again, I do not think such an argument is presented by pedophiles. They
don't, I think, want to "rescue" all children from what they see as a
"death sentence." Your use of emotive language weakens your
presentation.
I think what they want is for other people to stop telling specific
kids that they cannot do what _they_ (the kids) want to do simply
because it's a sexual matter and therefore proscribed for, in the
opinion of the pedophile, no good reason.
Try this mental exercise:?
Adult: "You must not engage in sexual activity."
Child: Why?"
Adult: "Because at your age it is wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Adult: "Because you want to do it with a much older person. That is
doubly-wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Now, to be honest, I don't know what might be said next. You fill in
the rest.
I think many parents want to say "Sex per se is dirty and bad. I cannot
stop other adults but I sure can stop you." A liberal will respond "but
why is is dirty and bad?" Frankly, I have NEVER seen a valid response
to that earth-shattering question. Most people believe it is a truism
so they assume no one will question it. They go ahead from that stance
and say that kids should be delayed from entering that "dirty" world as
long as possible. But ask them why is sex dirty and they scramble to
change the subject. Because I don't think there is any valid answer.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are
they going to get curious about sex before that time?
People get curious about sex when they get curious about sex. Before
age 16, are you asking? Hell yes!
Here's another little exercise for conservatives to try: Wait till you
make a new acquaintance with a kid who does not know you are a
conservative. (I don't mean you personally. I don't know if you're a
conservative or not. I think so, but it's polite to wait till you say
so.)
Develop a conversational relationship with the kid. Sooner or later,
the kid will disclose something you disapprove of. BITE YOUR FUCKING
TONGUE !!! say _nothing_ that would give even the smallest hint to the
kid that you are in any way surprised or disapproving of what you have
just been told.
Continue the conversational relationship. Maybe for hours, maybe for
days, maybe for weeks. Eventually, you will be told that the kid is
waaaaay more experienced in matters of a sexual nature than you would
ever imagine in your wildest dreams or that you would ever accept from
a pedophile giving you an opinion. Take the Reality Test. i dare you.
There is a huge communication gulf between kids and adults because they
know that the adult will dump on them as soon as they open up. So they
stay quiet and the only adults who know about what kids really are
doing are the pedophiles, liberals and, to a lesser extent, the
school-teachers who cannot avoid overhearing things they sometimes wish
they did not. In a way, it's a private joke. The conservative parents
on one side, everyone else on the other. Trouble is, it stops being a
joke when an information leak occurs.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...If
Kidwell and company were TRULY interested in the welfare of children,
they wouldn't be posting half the crap they do.
I think some people are just inept at text-based conversation. For
sure, i will always prefer a face-to-face. Many people hold
badly-formed opinions or cannot find the words to properly express
them. Perhaps they just have a head full of wool. A second group pf
people will hold opinions that are just plain stupid and, more rarely,
a third group will hold an opinion that is dangerous. I think
Christopher fits into the first group.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Supposing a child under
the age of 16 decides to have sex with someone, who is also underaged...
well, THAT is not illegal
Sorry, it is illegal in most jurisdictions. And it has lead to some
horror stories right here in this group. The cruelty and downright
fucking moronic attitude of some lawmakers and law enforcers is too
strange for fiction. Only in America...
c***@comcast.net
2006-04-24 01:46:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
bobandcarole ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
This isn't a "debate" moron
These men are CHILD MOLESTERS and no amount of "debate" will change
anything
Ahhhh... the refreshing honesty of bobandcarol; Listerine of Usenet. ; )
More like, the piece of shit, and SATAN INCARNATE of Usenet!
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-24 02:51:17 UTC
Permalink
ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by c***@comcast.net
Post by Twinkle Toes
bobandcarole ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
This isn't a "debate" moron
These men are CHILD MOLESTERS and no amount of "debate" will change
anything
Ahhhh... the refreshing honesty of bobandcarol; Listerine of Usenet. ; )
More like, the piece of shit, and SATAN INCARNATE of Usenet!
Now WHO sounds like the religious fanatic????

How evil must one be, in order to get called "Satan" by a *PEDOPHILE*?
It boggles the mind.

Way to go, bobandcarol!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
--
The problem with most female Trolls, is that their posts lack
entertainment value.

And then *I* came along.... : P
c***@comcast.net
2006-04-24 10:51:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by c***@comcast.net
Post by Twinkle Toes
bobandcarole ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
This isn't a "debate" moron
These men are CHILD MOLESTERS and no amount of "debate" will change
anything
Ahhhh... the refreshing honesty of bobandcarol; Listerine of Usenet. ; )
More like, the piece of shit, and SATAN INCARNATE of Usenet!
Now WHO sounds like the religious fanatic????
How evil must one be, in order to get called "Satan" by a *PEDOPHILE*?
It boggles the mind.
Way to go, bobandcarol!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
And why am I evil, just because I am a pedophile? I am not forcing
children into sexual situations (I let them come to me if they want to
make whoopie), I have NEVER raised my hand to a child or hit them in
any way, shape or form, so how am I evil?

On the other hand, if you read bobandcarole's earlier posts, he/she
has:

1. Said that children who masturbate should have their hands cut off.
2. Children who masturbate together when they are of the same age,
should be castrated or neutered.
3. Called NUMEROUS times for killing pedophiles for no other reason
than they ARE pedophiles, whether or not the children want them killed
(which in most cases they DON'T, exempting times when they are FORCIBLY
RAPED!)!
4. Call Muslims "towelheads" and "sand niggers".
5 And done and said other patently insane things!

Is bobandcarole a liar and evil incarnate, which is what Satan is
supposed to be? I would say YES, most definitely, and so have the
people in the lawyer's office where I work, the people who I talk to on
the Logical Reality board, and MANY others who I have talked to!
Laffy Taffy
2006-04-24 15:46:12 UTC
Permalink
Kidwell ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by c***@comcast.net
Post by Twinkle Toes
ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by c***@comcast.net
Post by Twinkle Toes
bobandcarole ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
This isn't a "debate" moron
These men are CHILD MOLESTERS and no amount of "debate" will change
anything
Ahhhh... the refreshing honesty of bobandcarol; Listerine of Usenet. ; )
More like, the piece of shit, and SATAN INCARNATE of Usenet!
Now WHO sounds like the religious fanatic????
How evil must one be, in order to get called "Satan" by a *PEDOPHILE*?
It boggles the mind.
Way to go, bobandcarol!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
And why am I evil, just because I am a pedophile? I am not forcing
children into sexual situations (I let them come to me if they want to
make whoopie), I have NEVER raised my hand to a child or hit them in
any way, shape or form, so how am I evil?
And yet, according to you, a girl HAS accused you of hitting her. From
what I have seen, you hate children. You're constantly calling them
"liars"... AND I see you stating other unsavory things, which are often
in a criminal's defense. You make excuses for rapists, men who sell
their children, people who torture their children...etc. How can I not
find such things to be alarming? You have even stated that you were
raped by a group of men, when you were a child. IMO you need EXTENSIVE
therapy... and you need to STAY AWAY FROM CHILDREN. Your mind is not in
the right place.
Post by c***@comcast.net
On the other hand, if you read bobandcarole's earlier posts, he/she
1. Said that children who masturbate should have their hands cut off.
2. Children who masturbate together when they are of the same age,
should be castrated or neutered.
Proof? I've NEVER seen bobandcarol say such things.
Post by c***@comcast.net
3. Called NUMEROUS times for killing pedophiles for no other reason
than they ARE pedophiles, whether or not the children want them killed
(which in most cases they DON'T, exempting times when they are FORCIBLY
RAPED!)!
Called for killing pedophiles? What? Oh, are bobandcarol murderers now?
*eyeroll*
Post by c***@comcast.net
4. Call Muslims "towelheads" and "sand niggers".
5 And done and said other patently insane things!
And you have NEVER made ANY derogatory remarks about African-Americans???
Post by c***@comcast.net
Is bobandcarole a liar and evil incarnate, which is what Satan is
supposed to be? I would say YES, most definitely, and so have the
people in the lawyer's office where I work, the people who I talk to on
the Logical Reality board, and MANY others who I have talked to!
How can you believe in evil and Satan, when you don't even believe in God
or Heaven? Or do you just use Christian terminology when it suits your
purpose in debate?
--
The problem with most female Trolls, is that their posts lack entertainment value.

And then *I* came along.... : P
bobandcarole
2006-04-24 15:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Laffy Taffy
Kidwell ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by c***@comcast.net
Post by Twinkle Toes
ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by c***@comcast.net
Post by Twinkle Toes
bobandcarole ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a
Sears' dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
This isn't a "debate" moron
These men are CHILD MOLESTERS and no amount of "debate" will change
anything
Ahhhh... the refreshing honesty of bobandcarol; Listerine of Usenet. ; )
More like, the piece of shit, and SATAN INCARNATE of Usenet!
Now WHO sounds like the religious fanatic????
How evil must one be, in order to get called "Satan" by a *PEDOPHILE*?
It boggles the mind.
Way to go, bobandcarol!!!! HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
And why am I evil, just because I am a pedophile? I am not forcing
children into sexual situations (I let them come to me if they want to
make whoopie), I have NEVER raised my hand to a child or hit them in
any way, shape or form, so how am I evil?
And yet, according to you, a girl HAS accused you of hitting her. From
what I have seen, you hate children. You're constantly calling them
"liars"... AND I see you stating other unsavory things, which are often
in a criminal's defense. You make excuses for rapists, men who sell
their children, people who torture their children...etc. How can I not
find such things to be alarming? You have even stated that you were
raped by a group of men, when you were a child. IMO you need EXTENSIVE
therapy... and you need to STAY AWAY FROM CHILDREN. Your mind is not in
the right place.
Post by c***@comcast.net
On the other hand, if you read bobandcarole's earlier posts, he/she
1. Said that children who masturbate should have their hands cut off.
2. Children who masturbate together when they are of the same age,
should be castrated or neutered.
{1} Another crissy lie
{2}Another crissy lie
Post by Laffy Taffy
Proof? I've NEVER seen bobandcarol say such things.
Post by c***@comcast.net
3. Called NUMEROUS times for killing pedophiles for no other reason
than they ARE pedophiles,
100% truth
Post by Laffy Taffy
whether or not the children want them killed
It's not the childs call idiot
Post by Laffy Taffy
Post by c***@comcast.net
(which in most cases they DON'T, exempting times when they are FORCIBLY
RAPED!)!
Called for killing pedophiles? What? Oh, are bobandcarol murderers now?
*eyeroll*
Post by c***@comcast.net
4. Call Muslims "towelheads" and "sand niggers".
5 And done and said other patently insane things!
Are you in love with Camel jockey terrorists now?
Post by Laffy Taffy
And you have NEVER made ANY derogatory remarks about African-Americans???
Post by c***@comcast.net
Is bobandcarole a liar and evil incarnate, which is what Satan is
supposed to be? I would say YES, most definitely, and so have the
people in the lawyer's office where I work, the people who I talk to on
the Logical Reality board, and MANY others who I have talked to!
How can you believe in evil and Satan, when you don't even believe in God
or Heaven? Or do you just use Christian terminology when it suits your
purpose in debate?
--
The problem with most female Trolls, is that their posts lack entertainment value.
And then *I* came along.... : P
BusyGuy
2006-04-23 16:53:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
How could i have overlooked the (admittedly-childish) almost-pun "mass
debater"?
Twinkle Toes
2006-04-23 20:33:59 UTC
Permalink
BusyGuy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
*smirk* Kidwell says I'm st00pid. LOLOLOL
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply both to the
act of having sex with children & the actual condition of being sexually
attracted to them.
That could be the fault of ignorant journalists who love to put their
pretty faces and empty heads on television.
Uh... no. I rarely watch TV. The aforementioned definition can be found
in just about ANY current dictionary, which is where I obtained it.
Post by BusyGuy
Pedophilia is not commonly
considered to be the act of having sex with children, it is more
usually applied to the mental state of being attracted (usually
sexually attracted) to children. And specifically to pre-pubescent
children, at that.
I never thought it applied directly to the *act* of having sex with
children, either. But then, I looked it up, and found otherwise.
Post by BusyGuy
Usenet trolls and other sundry morons occasionally misuse the word
deliberately, for their own agendas.
Are you somehow unaware that *I* am one of those Trolls? Tsk.. tsk.. you
really SHOULD read the headers, more often.

For the record, I only started trolling these groups for laughs and
giggles... but then I saw the seriousness of the situation, after which,
it then became personal. While I cannot speak for the other Trolls, in
regard to their own individual motivations, I know that at least a couple
of them are parents, who have every right to be concerned. With that in
mind, is it any wonder they are projecting hostility towards the
pedophiles? I think you need to try and understand where they are coming
from. It's highly difficult to compose a cardboard, logical debate,
aimed at someone who is, from our perspective, a lecherous opportunist
seeking the right to violate our offspring. For most, having a child
changes the way you think about everything. You have this tiny little
human being who is completely dependent upon you for their safety,
comfort, and happiness. ANYTHING or ANYONE that appears to pose a threat
to their well-being, will be stirring up a hornet's nest of Nature-imbued
protective parental instincts. Like the lioness, I too will attack,
maim, and destroy those who attempt to prey on my cub, up until the day
comes when he is old enough to defend himself. I think many of the
Trolls here, are of a similar mentality.
Post by BusyGuy
The act of having sex with children is called, by opponents, "child
sexual abuse" and, by others...well, a variety of names, really.
Post by Twinkle Toes
I define a *child* as someone who is physically
and/or mentally underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions.
I think that's a mistake. "Child" has a legal meaning, which differs
from juridiction to jurisdiction. It also has an everyday meaning and I
do not think your definition fits the common meaning.
Let's not get technical... I'm sure you know what I mean.
Post by BusyGuy
Your definition would encompass adults with a developmental disability.
Quite true. I believe they should also be closely guarded, due to their
vulnerable state of mind. This would also apply to certain types of
senior citizens, as well... specifically, those in nursing homes, who
experience some level of incoherency, and often find themselves at the
mercy of a devious CNA with ulterior motives.
Post by BusyGuy
Such people can present _as_ children but are _not_ children in the
accepted sense, i think.
I think mental competence is a HUGE determining factor, regardless of
age.
Post by BusyGuy
I suggest that, if the debate is about pedophilia, the word "child"
should refer to a pre-pubertal person. If the debate is about the law,
the word should refer to a person under the age of consent in the
jurisdiction in question. If the debate is about societal attitudes,
perhaps the word should be omitted on the ground of ambiguity or
uncertainty.
I suggest you accept my current terminology... AS IS. I'm not a food
processor, don't expect me to mince.
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
It is none of my business what others choose to fantasize
about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell, making statements to the
effect of "if it's old enough to say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"...
Did he say that? I missed it.
Yep.
Post by BusyGuy
"Have sex with" is also an emotion-charged and ambiguous term. i think
it, too, should not be used in any serious debate because no one knows
what the user means exactly.
Oh, good grief! I think everyone knows what "have sex with" entails.
The numerous variations of said act do not discount the fact that it is
still, essentially in the very general sense... SEX. Oral, anal,
vaginal, mutual masturbation and so forth... are ALL valid forms of
sexual activity, between two or more people.

Besides, I was quoting Chrissy... take it up with him.
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
What level of savagery would this country degrade to
Naughty naughty. Please don't be one of those who thinks _their_
country is the only one in the world.
Excuse you? Are you attempting to dictate what I should or should not
think/type? I am a citizen of USA, and am addressing fellow Americans.
Foreigners can fill in the blanks, where necessary. I'm not interested
in debating the legalities/social norms...etc.. of other countries...
just my own... since I DO live here, after all. However, I feel deep
sympathy for ANY child, in ANY part of the world, who is being abused.
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
, if everyone was
allowed to do anything they want, just because it *turns them on*??? We
don't need another Thailand
Huh?
1 Who says there is any such place where "everyone is allowed to do
anything [he] wants?"
Did you somehow miss the word "IF"????? Although no country is entirely
Anarchic, some are bordering that particular political spectrum more
closely than others. *cough* Holland *cough*
Post by BusyGuy
2 Who is "we"
Hmmm... Well, this reply was meant for Frank McCoy, who, like myself, is
a resident of USA.
Post by BusyGuy
3 What is it about Thailand that offends those people you call "we" I
surely hope you are not saying that, in Thailand, everyone is allowed
to do anything he wants just because it turns him on and that this is
not alright with you.
I mentioned three different countries... why did you so eagerly scarf up
on the Thailand reference???

Could it be... because you live there?

Could it be... that you are in fact, if memory serves me correctly, the
VERY inspiration for my use of Thailand as an example??? BECAUSE...

You are, correct me if I am wrong, the same man who divulged the rather
tawdry details of his relationship with a young, economically
disadvantaged Thai boy, whom he provides with basic necessities, in
exchange for sexual favors???

The same man who, so arrogantly stated "he has it good with me, and he
knows it"???

The same man who was contemplating the possibility of fucking around on
said boy???

The SAME man who coldly explained how he manages to *overlook* the
hundreds of young male prostitutes sleeping on street corners??? That
is, of course, until you feel a twitch in your trousers. Yeah, I'll bet
you have time for them then, huh?

If you're who I think you are... children are a mere vessel for your
sperm, as far as you're concerned.
Post by BusyGuy
Because (a) It is certainly not true that everyone has such a right in
Thailand; (b) if it were true, what business would it be of people
outside Thailand?
Yes, I know that, because I live in another country, I'm supposed to
somehow turn off my *HUMANITY* switch. Maybe that's an easy feat for a
robot such as yourself, but I'm a human being with a heart. Suffering is
suffering, regardless of where it occurs... and I MAKE the dissolution of
such atrocities *MY* business. Just as my post was a response to Frank,
and you chose to make it YOUR business.
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I fail to
see the *great injustice* in age of consent laws.
Then you are in the right place. Here is a good place to debate such a
thing. Without all the bullshit that the trolls spread, the debate is a
worthy one and deserving of time from you and other intelligent
opponents and supporters. Both sides have valid points to make.
It's just a pity that the points are not being made in a greater forum,
where they would attract input from the offline community too, and
would catch the attention of the only people who can really make a
difference, the politicians.
Post by Twinkle Toes
There are FAR more
pressing issues to address than, whether or not a pedophile is being
allowed to get his rocks off with some *young stuff*.
Better, in any debate, to avoid pejoratives. It labels the user as
emotional rather than logical and often leads to diverting the debate
away from the issue into ad hominems.
Emotional issues provoke emotional responses. Not all of us are capable
of approaching such topics with the wooden, icy logic that you apparently
find comfort in. Are you saying people's feelings are unimportant???
Ha! I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL, if that is your stance.
Post by BusyGuy
You also demonstrate an error of logic here. Though there might be "far
more pressing issues", that is not a good reason to avoid debating
_this_ issue. If it were, the whole world would be constrained to
debate just one issue. (And the Big Argument would be "which issue?")
Where did I state that only ONE issue is worthy of debate??? I said
"issues"... pssst... that's plural. I'm afraid it is YOUR logic, which
is faulty. One word: Priorities. ALL governments address issues, based
on importance, relevance & necessity. Forgive me, but I find the
argument of whether or not a pedophile should be allowed to legally act
upon their desires, a ridiculous & unwarranted distraction from the
things that REALLY matter... like eliminating poverty, environmental
concerns...and so forth.
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
The worst argument
yet, presented by pedo-poster-boy Kidwell, is that it's *for the
children*.
Yes, there are many things about Christopher's posts that I don't agree
with.
Wasting time arguing with trolls is one of them.
I have come to acquire the reverse attitude... the Trolls are wasting
their time on him, including me. His head is like a sieve.
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
...I
think it goes without saying that, even IF such laws were abolished,
Chrissy will NEVER see a line of eager school girls, forming outside his
front door.
This is an example of the sort of ad hominem i think everyone should
avoid. Worse, in fact. It's a specious, unnecessarily-provocative and
silly comment. Sorry. I don't think he ever said that and it is fatuous
to imply that he did.
It's called HUMOR, Mr. Roboto. Was that not programmed into your hard
drive, during your VERY lengthy stint on the assembly line?
Post by BusyGuy
Even a dedicated and committed pedophile does not fantasize about such
a situation. Instead, most of them dream of having one consenting
partner with whom a genuine affection can be shared ? with or without
physical activity ? in the absence of strong disapproval from others
who have, in the opinion of the pedophile, no proper ground to become
involved.
Who are you to assume what ALL pedophiles fantasize about? Are you their
official spokesman? You can only speak for yourself... and, once again,
IF you are who I think you to be, you're not even capable of being honest
about your own desires. One partner indeed... hmmph.
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
...the age of consent in my state is
16; I see nothing wrong with this.
I understand. If you grow up having cornflakes for breakfast every
morning, chances are you will find it "weird" that the guy down the
road prefers eggs on toast.
Nice analogy. Comparing human beings to breakfast consumables. My, you
really ARE a carnivorous one, aren't you? LOLOLOL

You MAY have been speaking in reference to the actual laws themselves...
but I could NOT resist that one.
Post by BusyGuy
People (let's say, just for the argument) who live in an American state
where the age of consent is 18, would think your state's age of consent
is too liberal. People in your state would think that, over there in
the neighboring state where the age of consent is 14, things are way
too liberal.
Many people in general in America will think that Canada is too liberal.
Many in Canada will think that Australia is too liberal.
Many in Australia will think that New Zealand is too liberal.
Many in New Zealand will think that Western Europe is too liberal.
Many in Western Europe will think that Japan is too liberal.
Many in Japan will think that the former Soviet Union is too liberal.
Many people in general in America will think that China is too
conservative.
Many in China will think that Pakistan is too conservative.
Many in Pakistan will think that Afghanistan is too conservative.
Many in Afghanistan will think that Iran is too conservative.
Many in Iran will think that North Korea is too conservative.
Yet almost everyone is moderably content. It's all a matter of what
you're used to.
No shit.
Post by BusyGuy
The big problem, in my view, is that America thinks it has the right
but, worse, almost alone, also has the power, to tell the rest of the
world how to behave. Funny how America somehow seems to be the only
place to have gotten everything "just right."
I'll pretend you didn't say that.
Post by BusyGuy
You can be sure that it's not just the folks in North Korea and Russia
who think America should just keep its fucking big trap shut and its
strong-arm bully-boy tactics at home. You must surely have noticed how
most of the world holds a deep disaffection for Washington. Pity most
Americans themselves are such nice people.
Fucking big trap? Ooops! Would that be a sample of the unemotional
"logic" you were speaking of???? All hostility directed at America is
usually based on nothing but sheer jealousy. Why do SO many immigrants
make USA their home??? Because it's damn good over here, that's why. : P
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
It seems reasonable, since one has
only a few short years to enjoy the innocence of childhood
"Innocence" is a word widely-misused, in my opinion. The word needed is
"ignorance." The antonym of "innocence" is "guilt" and I see no reason
why the passage from childhood to adulthood should bring on a flood of
guilt. Unless you happen to be a christian and believe all that
bullshit about gardens and apples.
The antonym of "ignorance" is "knowledge" and i think that's way more
appropriate when talking about children and their awareness of sexual
matters. But "the ignorance of childhood" is out of favor because
"ignorant" has acquired a whiff of disapproving personal attack that it
does not deserve.
I'll use whatever words I choose. I'm not one of those poor Thai boys
you mount nightly. Ha! And they say Americans are the bossy ones. I'd
say you need a good slap on the prick... I don't take orders from you,
honey.
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
... A mere
16 years of childish, carefree abandon is hardly a death sentence.
Again, I do not think such an argument is presented by pedophiles. They
don't, I think, want to "rescue" all children from what they see as a
"death sentence." Your use of emotive language weakens your
presentation.
And your use of "fucking big trap" was NOT emotive???

See, you've really done it now. When I first began to compose this
reply, I was in a oddly rational mood. But, you have nit-picked, and
fussed, and rambled... and just made an all-out issue of the most
irrelevant things. Thus, my inner Troll is now sufficiently riled.

For your FUCKING MISGUIDED INFORMATION....EVERYONE expresses themselves
with SOME form of emotion... it's called BEING HUMAN. Consult your
owner's manual, Killroy.
Post by BusyGuy
I think what they want is for other people to stop telling specific
kids that they cannot do what _they_ (the kids) want to do simply
because it's a sexual matter and therefore proscribed for, in the
opinion of the pedophile, no good reason.
Of course a pedo is going to think it's a no-good reason... they want to
GET OFF. Anything that stands in the way of their sexual gratification
is going to be labeled as "unreasonable". That's a given. Logic, baby,
logic..

Think

*slap*

Think

*slap*

*slap*

*SLAM*

*KICK*

*TASE*

I have a headache THIS big, because of you.
Post by BusyGuy
Try this mental exercise:?
Grab your ankles. *deploys paddle*
Post by BusyGuy
Adult: "You must not engage in sexual activity."
Child: Why?"
Adult: "Because at your age it is wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Adult: "Because you want to do it with a much older person. That is
doubly-wrong."
Child: "Why?"
You fill in the rest.
Hey, let's fill that hole in your ass, instead. *deploys strap-on*

It's time for YOU to be the bitch.
Post by BusyGuy
I think many parents want to say "Sex per se is dirty and bad. I cannot
stop other adults but I sure can stop you." A liberal will respond "but
why is is dirty and bad?" Frankly, I have NEVER seen a valid response
to that earth-shattering question. Most people believe it is a truism
so they assume no one will question it. They go ahead from that stance
and say that kids should be delayed from entering that "dirty" world as
long as possible. But ask them why is sex dirty and they scramble to
change the subject. Because I don't think there is any valid answer.
As I have stated, numerous times, and am getting pretty fucking sick of
repeating myself... I DO NOT think sex is dirty, evil, bad... etc.

I believe that ANYTHING can be potentially destructive, if used in a
negative manner.

Case in point: I have a pound of sugar in my cupboard. I *could* use it
to bake cookies... OR... I *could* pour it into my annoying neighbor's
gas tank.

Understand that gross misuse of anything, be it a plastic spoon, a jar of
Vaseline, or in this case.. sex, will transform it into something "bad".
For the record, I categorize the act of adult w/child intercourse as a
gross misuse of sexuality.
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are
they going to get curious about sex before that time?
People get curious about sex when they get curious about sex. Before
age 16, are you asking? Hell yes!
Here's another little exercise for conservatives to try: Wait till you
make a new acquaintance with a kid who does not know you are a
conservative. (I don't mean you personally. I don't know if you're a
conservative or not. I think so, but it's polite to wait till you say
so.)
I'm not a conservative, you moron. I'm a Moderately Liberal Socialist
with Democratic overtones. However, I must say that the resident pedos
are pushing me further toward the right-wing mentality than I ever
thought possible.
Post by BusyGuy
Develop a conversational relationship with the kid. Sooner or later,
the kid will disclose something you disapprove of. BITE YOUR FUCKING
TONGUE !!! say _nothing_ that would give even the smallest hint to the
kid that you are in any way surprised or disapproving of what you have
just been told.
Continue the conversational relationship. Maybe for hours, maybe for
days, maybe for weeks. Eventually, you will be told that the kid is
waaaaay more experienced in matters of a sexual nature than you would
ever imagine in your wildest dreams or that you would ever accept from
a pedophile giving you an opinion. Take the Reality Test. i dare you.
*slap* You're one of the VERY last people I would take parental advice
from.
Post by BusyGuy
There is a huge communication gulf between kids and adults because they
know that the adult will dump on them as soon as they open up. So they
stay quiet and the only adults who know about what kids really are
doing are the pedophiles, liberals and, to a lesser extent, the
school-teachers who cannot avoid overhearing things they sometimes wish
they did not. In a way, it's a private joke. The conservative parents
on one side, everyone else on the other. Trouble is, it stops being a
joke when an information leak occurs.
Post by Twinkle Toes
...If
Kidwell and company were TRULY interested in the welfare of children,
they wouldn't be posting half the crap they do.
I think some people are just inept at text-based conversation. For
sure, i will always prefer a face-to-face. Many people hold
badly-formed opinions or cannot find the words to properly express
them. Perhaps they just have a head full of wool. A second group pf
people will hold opinions that are just plain stupid and, more rarely,
a third group will hold an opinion that is dangerous. I think
Christopher fits into the first group.
I think he fits into groups 1 and 3. Although, I've always viewed him as
a large, steaming pile of number 2. LOLOLOL : P
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Supposing a child under
the age of 16 decides to have sex with someone, who is also underaged...
well, THAT is not illegal
Sorry, it is illegal in most jurisdictions. And it has lead to some
horror stories right here in this group. The cruelty and downright
fucking moronic attitude of some lawmakers and law enforcers is too
strange for fiction. Only in America...
Uh... WRONG. I've yet to see an underaged couple get busted for messing
around... at least not in my state. Only in cases where a child was
forcibly raped by another, has there been any legal intervention.
--
And the Stupid CUNT Lifetime achievement award goes to:

Camille Grammer.. AKA The Gold-digging closet lesbian
who suggested the *brilliant* idea of laser hair removal &
back-waxing to her gorgeous, much-undeserved husband.

Everyone knows it's a SIN to rob a teddy bear of his fur.

Here's hoping you experience permenant facial paralasis,
when you crawl back into Fake-Bitches-R-Us for your next
Botox injection, you insipid, ignominious, rotting shell of a woman.
BusyGuy
2006-04-24 13:58:56 UTC
Permalink
WARNING. WARNING. TROLL-WATCH. There is a freshly-painted moron in
here, masquerading as an intelligent debater. Goes by the fancy-man
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are you somehow unaware that *I* am one of those Trolls? Tsk.. tsk.. you
really SHOULD read the headers, more often.
but also
Post by Twinkle Toes
I'm a Moderately Liberal Socialist
with Democratic overtones.
Falls off chair laughing.

Hey guys, couldn't someone have warned me about this fucking
moronic...um...l-l-l-l-liberal t-t-t-t-troll...

hahahahaha Oh wait, i can't stop hehehehehehe

...before I wasted so much time composing a reply that I then had to
delete after reading the bullshit in the second half of his latest
post.
bobandcarole
2006-04-24 14:35:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by BusyGuy
WARNING. WARNING. TROLL-WATCH. There is a freshly-painted moron in
here, masquerading as an intelligent debater. Goes by the fancy-man
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are you somehow unaware that *I* am one of those Trolls? Tsk.. tsk.. you
really SHOULD read the headers, more often.
but also
Post by Twinkle Toes
I'm a Moderately Liberal Socialist
with Democratic overtones.
Falls off chair laughing.
Hey guys, couldn't someone have warned me about this fucking
moronic...um...l-l-l-l-liberal t-t-t-t-troll...
hahahahaha Oh wait, i can't stop hehehehehehe
...before I wasted so much time composing a reply that I then had to
delete after reading the bullshit in the second half of his latest
post.
Another concerned Parent.
Welcome aboard, the guns and ammo are on your right and the targets are
everywhere...
Happy hunting
c***@comcast.net
2006-04-24 15:11:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
WARNING. WARNING. TROLL-WATCH. There is a freshly-painted moron in
here, masquerading as an intelligent debater. Goes by the fancy-man
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are you somehow unaware that *I* am one of those Trolls? Tsk.. tsk.. you
really SHOULD read the headers, more often.
but also
Post by Twinkle Toes
I'm a Moderately Liberal Socialist
with Democratic overtones.
Falls off chair laughing.
Hey guys, couldn't someone have warned me about this fucking
moronic...um...l-l-l-l-liberal t-t-t-t-troll...
hahahahaha Oh wait, i can't stop hehehehehehe
...before I wasted so much time composing a reply that I then had to
delete after reading the bullshit in the second half of his latest
post.
Another concerned Parent.
Welcome aboard, the guns and ammo are on your right and the targets are
everywhere...
Happy hunting
bobandcarole, you are not a concerned parent. You are a parent (and I
use the term loosely!) who is concerned about keeping his/her children
from doing ANYTHING that might inconvenience YOUR lives, and wrap it up
in ACTUALLY being concerned about your children
If you were REALLY concerned about your children, you would let them do
ANYTHING they wanted to, as long as they were not causing property
damage and were not hurting anyone else but themselves!
That is what I go by with my daughters, and it has worked EXTREMELY
well! Your children, I just bet they are neurotic little asses, afraid
to tell their parents the truth when they accidentally break something
because their parents would expect them to be omniscient and know the
outcome of their actions BEFORE they do those actions, and who secretly
HATE you!
Looking For GoldieCocks
2006-04-24 15:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Kidwell ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by c***@comcast.net
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
WARNING. WARNING. TROLL-WATCH. There is a freshly-painted moron in
here, masquerading as an intelligent debater. Goes by the fancy-man
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are you somehow unaware that *I* am one of those Trolls? Tsk.. tsk.. you
really SHOULD read the headers, more often.
but also
Post by Twinkle Toes
I'm a Moderately Liberal Socialist
with Democratic overtones.
Falls off chair laughing.
Hey guys, couldn't someone have warned me about this fucking
moronic...um...l-l-l-l-liberal t-t-t-t-troll...
hahahahaha Oh wait, i can't stop hehehehehehe
...before I wasted so much time composing a reply that I then had to
delete after reading the bullshit in the second half of his latest
post.
Another concerned Parent.
Welcome aboard, the guns and ammo are on your right and the targets are
everywhere...
Happy hunting
bobandcarole, you are not a concerned parent. You are a parent (and I
use the term loosely!) who is concerned about keeping his/her children
from doing ANYTHING that might inconvenience YOUR lives, and wrap it up
in ACTUALLY being concerned about your children
If you were REALLY concerned about your children, you would let them do
ANYTHING they wanted to, as long as they were not causing property
damage and were not hurting anyone else but themselves!
That is what I go by with my daughters, and it has worked EXTREMELY
well! Your children, I just bet they are neurotic little asses, afraid
to tell their parents the truth when they accidentally break something
because their parents would expect them to be omniscient and know the
outcome of their actions BEFORE they do those actions, and who secretly
HATE you!
Let them do anything they want, as long as they are hurting no one but
themselves???

Are you CRAZY? Wait, I already know the answer to that question.

So, you're saying it's ok for kids to hurt themselves??! What a nut.
--
The problem with most female Trolls, is that their posts lack
entertainment value.

And then *I* came along.... : P
Lamey The Cable Guy
2006-04-24 18:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by c***@comcast.net
Post by bobandcarole
Post by BusyGuy
WARNING. WARNING. TROLL-WATCH. There is a freshly-painted moron in
here, masquerading as an intelligent debater. Goes by the fancy-man
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are you somehow unaware that *I* am one of those Trolls? Tsk.. tsk.. you
really SHOULD read the headers, more often.
but also
Post by Twinkle Toes
I'm a Moderately Liberal Socialist
with Democratic overtones.
Falls off chair laughing.
Hey guys, couldn't someone have warned me about this fucking
moronic...um...l-l-l-l-liberal t-t-t-t-troll...
hahahahaha Oh wait, i can't stop hehehehehehe
...before I wasted so much time composing a reply that I then had to
delete after reading the bullshit in the second half of his latest
post.
Another concerned Parent.
Welcome aboard, the guns and ammo are on your right and the targets are
everywhere...
Happy hunting
bobandcarole, you are not a concerned parent. You are a parent (and I
use the term loosely!) who is concerned about keeping his/her children
from doing ANYTHING that might inconvenience YOUR lives, and wrap it up
in ACTUALLY being concerned about your children
If you were REALLY concerned about your children, you would let them do
ANYTHING they wanted to, as long as they were not causing property
damage and were not hurting anyone else but themselves!
That is what I go by with my daughters, and it has worked EXTREMELY
well! Your children, I just bet they are neurotic little asses, afraid
to tell their parents the truth when they accidentally break something
because their parents would expect them to be omniscient and know the
outcome of their actions BEFORE they do those actions, and who secretly
HATE you!
I'm gonna have a surprise for you.
Laffy Taffy
2006-04-24 15:22:40 UTC
Permalink
BusyGuy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by BusyGuy
WARNING. WARNING. TROLL-WATCH. There is a freshly-painted moron in
here, masquerading as an intelligent debater. Goes by the fancy-man
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are you somehow unaware that *I* am one of those Trolls? Tsk.. tsk.. you
really SHOULD read the headers, more often.
but also
Post by Twinkle Toes
I'm a Moderately Liberal Socialist
with Democratic overtones.
Falls off chair laughing.
Hey guys, couldn't someone have warned me about this fucking
moronic...um...l-l-l-l-liberal t-t-t-t-troll...
hahahahaha Oh wait, i can't stop hehehehehehe
...before I wasted so much time composing a reply that I then had to
delete after reading the bullshit in the second half of his latest
post.
Do you actually think a guy would call himself "Twinkle Toes"?????

I see only ONE moron here, and that would be YOU. I waisted a good 30
minutes on your ass... and get nothing in return? Wow, that's the thanks
I get for TRYING to be civil to one of your kind. I personally think
it's a big excuse. I presented valid points, and you simply had NO
rebuttal for them.

Let it be known that BusyGuy is both a COWARD ,and someone who is
incapable of intelligent debate.

Go ahead... run with your tail between your legs... just like ALL the
rest. I think you've proved what you're made of.
--
The problem with most female Trolls, is that their posts lack
entertainment value.

And then *I* came along.... : P
Arthur Wendleson
2006-04-27 13:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Twinkle Toes
BusyGuy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
Hey, BusyGuy, don't count on this. Twinkle Toes is just another sock puppet
for Laffy Taffy and all the other trolls. He/She is just as big a fucking
idiot as the others.
Post by Twinkle Toes
*smirk* Kidwell says I'm st00pid. LOLOLOL
Kidwell was right. Busy Guy was wrong.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply both to the
act of having sex with children & the actual condition of being sexually
attracted to them.
That could be the fault of ignorant journalists who love to put their
pretty faces and empty heads on television.
Uh... no. I rarely watch TV. The aforementioned definition can be found
in just about ANY current dictionary, which is where I obtained it.
Post by BusyGuy
Pedophilia is not commonly
considered to be the act of having sex with children, it is more
usually applied to the mental state of being attracted (usually
sexually attracted) to children. And specifically to pre-pubescent
children, at that.
I never thought it applied directly to the *act* of having sex with
children, either. But then, I looked it up, and found otherwise.
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 1, Twinkle Toes 0


"Pedophilia (American English), or pædophilia/paedophilia (Commonwealth
English), is the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or
exclusively to pre-pubescent children. Persons with this attraction are
called pedophiles."
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia>



"Pedophilia (US) or paedophilia / pædophilia (UK), from the Greek ?????????
(paidophilia) < ??? (pais) "boy, child" and ????? (philia) "friendship",
(ICD-10 F65.4) is the condition of people whose primary sexual attraction is
toward prepubescent children. It is a chronophilia, i.e. a paraphilia in
which the paraphile's sexuoerotic age is discordant with his or her actual
chronological age and is concordant with the age of the partner. It is often
used informally to describe people attracted to adolescents, or to describe
child sex offenders. Pedosexuality is used as a synonym.

Definitions
The term "Paedophilia erotica" was coined in 1896 by the Vienna psychiatrist
Richard von Krafft-Ebing in his writing Psychopathia sexualis. The following
characteristics are given:

o the sexual interest is toward children, either prepubescent or at the
beginning of puberty
o the sexual interest is the primary one, i. e. exclusively or mainly toward
children
o the sexual interest remains over time"
<http://encycl.opentopia.com/term/Pedophilia>



"psychosexual disorder in which there is a preference for sexual activity
with prepubertal children"
<http://www.reference.com/browse/columbia/pedophil>

"A sexual interest in children (of either sex)"
<http://www.reference.com/browse/crystal/23992>

"Sexual attraction to a child"
<http://www.reasoned.org/glossary.htm>

"(COD) noun. sexual desire directed towards children."
<http://www.anglican.ca/faith/ethics/hsrg/terminology.htm>

"From its Greek roots, pedophilia implies love of a child ("paidos" +
"philia"). In practice, pedophiles are typically adult males with exclusive
sexual preferences for prepubescent boys and/or girls. Adult women can be
diagnosed as pedophiles as well as some postpubertal adolescents. Pedophilia
is not synonomous with child molestation ( pedophilia being a subcategory of
child molestation). There are clear and specific criteria for diagnosing
pedophilia in the DSM"
<http://www.forensicexaminers.com/terminology.html>

"Sexual love of a child by an adult"
<http://www.panteraconsulting.com/sexual_words_3.htm>

"a sexual attraction to children"
<http:/www.wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn>

I think Busy Guy should stand by his rebuttal of the assertion that the word
also extends, in its definition, to the _act_ of having sexual contact with a
child. In layman-speak, it often might. In discussions of a serious nature in
here, it might sometimes but, in my opinion, it should not because it does
not in the vocabularies of the medical or legal professions.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Usenet trolls and other sundry morons occasionally misuse the word
deliberately, for their own agendas.
Are you somehow unaware that *I* am one of those Trolls? Tsk.. tsk.. you
really SHOULD read the headers, more often.
Hey, Buy Guy. See, I told you.

You are wasting good time debating with a fucking TROLL!
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
I define a *child* as someone who is physically
and/or mentally underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions.
I think that's a mistake. "Child" has a legal meaning, which differs
from juridiction to jurisdiction. It also has an everyday meaning and I
do not think your definition fits the common meaning.
Let's not get technical... I'm sure you know what I mean.
Some of us might, others might not. Busy Guy is an intelligent and reasoned
debater. You make a mistake in saying "Lets not get technical". He will use
it against you later.

Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 2, Twinkle Toes 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Your definition would encompass adults with a developmental disability.
Quite true. I believe they should also be closely guarded, due to their
vulnerable state of mind. This would also apply to certain types of
senior citizens, as well... specifically, those in nursing homes, who
experience some level of incoherency, and often find themselves at the
mercy of a devious CNA with ulterior motives.
Post by BusyGuy
Such people can present _as_ children but are _not_ children in the
accepted sense, i think.
I think mental competence is a HUGE determining factor, regardless of
age.
But not in a debate about paedophilia which, more or less ipso facto,
focuses on age. I think no paedophile will have any romantic interest in a
geriatric with a mental age of 15.

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 3, Twinkle Toes 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
I suggest that, if the debate is about pedophilia, the word "child"
should refer to a pre-pubertal person. If the debate is about the law,
the word should refer to a person under the age of consent in the
jurisdiction in question. If the debate is about societal attitudes,
perhaps the word should be omitted on the ground of ambiguity or
uncertainty.
I suggest you accept my current terminology... AS IS. I'm not a food
processor, don't expect me to mince.
Oooh a hint of trollism already. And the debate is just warming up.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
It is none of my business what others choose to fantasize
about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell, making statements to the
effect of "if it's old enough to say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"...
Did he say that? I missed it.
Yep.
Post by BusyGuy
"Have sex with" is also an emotion-charged and ambiguous term. i think
it, too, should not be used in any serious debate because no one knows
what the user means exactly.
Oh, good grief! I think everyone knows what "have sex with" entails.
bullshit.
Post by Twinkle Toes
The numerous variations of said act do not discount the fact that it is
still, essentially in the very general sense... SEX. Oral, anal,
vaginal, mutual masturbation and so forth... are ALL valid forms of
sexual activity, between two or more people.
Besides, I was quoting Chrissy... take it up with him.
No, you used it to make a point that Busy Guy sought to raise with you. It is
therefore _your understanding_ of Kidwell's comment that counts in this case.

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 4, Twinkle Toes 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
What level of savagery would this country degrade to
Naughty naughty. Please don't be one of those who thinks _their_
country is the only one in the world.
Excuse you? Are you attempting to dictate what I should or should not
think/type?
You really are degenerating quickly into real trollism. BG did not "dictate"
anything. He requested. He said "Please don't..."

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, Twinkle Toes 0



I am a citizen of USA

ok

, and am addressing fellow Americans.

Not ok.

You are not addressing "fellow Americans." At first you were addressing
fellow usenet-users world-wide and, now, you are addressing BG. I am assuming
he is not a "fellow American" as I also am not.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Foreigners can fill in the blanks, where necessary.
How, if you do not give the information for them/us to do so?

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, World Usenet community 1, Twinkle Toes 0







I'm not interested
Post by Twinkle Toes
in debating the legalities/social norms...etc.. of other countries...
just my own... since I DO live here, after all. However, I feel deep
sympathy for ANY child, in ANY part of the world, who is being abused.
You arrogant cunt. You do not live "HERE". you live "THERE". Stop being such
a jingoistic fucking American. If you are not interested in debating on a
neutral platform, if you are so fucking ego-centric that no other country
interests you, if you are so willing to descend into using bullshit
language then you have already lost your argument.

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Twinkle Toes 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
, if everyone was
allowed to do anything they want, just because it *turns them on*??? We
don't need another Thailand
Huh?
1 Who says there is any such place where "everyone is allowed to do
anything [he] wants?"
Did you somehow miss the word "IF"?????
Your juxtaposition of a mention of Thailand, immediately after your first
sentence, clearly implies that you believe "Thailand is a place where
everyone can do anything they want, just because it turns them on, and we
don't need another place like that. If we did have another Thailand 'this
country' would descend into savagery."

In that reconstruction, which I believe is completely valid, your "if" is in
the right place. BG defeats you again.

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1,
Twinkle Toes 0






Although no country is entirely
Post by Twinkle Toes
Anarchic, some are bordering that particular political spectrum more
closely than others. *cough* Holland *cough*
Absolutely wrong. The Netherlands is a heavily-controlled country. It is, for
example, believed to be making more use of telephone tapping than any other
country. The patina of laissez-faire government is brought about by its
liberal attitude to marijuana but that is almost its only claim to
liberalism.

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Twinkle Toes 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Because (a) It is certainly not true that everyone has such a right in
Thailand; (b) if it were true, what business would it be of people
outside Thailand?
Yes, I know that, because I live in another country, I'm supposed to
somehow turn off my *HUMANITY* switch. Maybe that's an easy feat for a
robot such as yourself, but I'm a human being with a heart. Suffering is
suffering, regardless of where it occurs... and I MAKE the dissolution of
such atrocities *MY* business. Just as my post was a response to Frank,
and you chose to make it YOUR business.
Oh. what's this? Compassion for externals after all. Interesting.

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are you saying people's feelings are unimportant???
BG said no such thing. I have carefully read what he/she wrote.

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 6, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Ha! I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL, if that is your stance.
Post by BusyGuy
You also demonstrate an error of logic here. Though there might be "far
more pressing issues", that is not a good reason to avoid debating
_this_ issue. If it were, the whole world would be constrained to
debate just one issue. (And the Big Argument would be "which issue?")
Where did I state that only ONE issue is worthy of debate???
Where did BG say that you did?

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 7, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
ALL governments address issues, based
on importance, relevance & necessity.
Wrong. Governments address issues based on popularity.

Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 7, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
there are many things about Christopher's posts that I don't agree
with.
Wasting time arguing with trolls is one of them.
I have come to acquire the reverse attitude... the Trolls are wasting
their time on him, including me. His head is like a sieve.
There are many people who passionately invite them/you to stop wasting said
time.

Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 7, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Even a dedicated and committed pedophile does not fantasize about such
a situation. Instead, most of them dream of having one consenting
partner with whom a genuine affection can be shared ? with or without
physical activity ? in the absence of strong disapproval from others
who have, in the opinion of the pedophile, no proper ground to become
involved.
Who are you to assume what ALL pedophiles fantasize about?
Wrong again. You did not read what BG typed. He did not say "all" he said
"most". You really should sharpen your typing finger before you use it.

Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 7, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, Twinkle Toes 1



All hostility directed at America is
Post by Twinkle Toes
usually based on nothing but sheer jealousy.
What a clown you are.

Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 8, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, Twinkle Toes 1
America 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
I have a headache THIS big, because of you.
Oh no. surely not. (snigger)

Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 9, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, America 0, Twinkle
Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Try this mental exercise:?
Grab your ankles. *deploys paddle*
Post by BusyGuy
Adult: "You must not engage in sexual activity."
Child: Why?"
Adult: "Because at your age it is wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Adult: "Because you want to do it with a much older person. That is
doubly-wrong."
Child: "Why?"
You fill in the rest.
Hey, let's fill that hole in your ass, instead. *deploys strap-on*
It's time for YOU to be the bitch.
Funny how you completely failed to respond to this.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
I think many parents want to say "Sex per se is dirty and bad. I cannot
stop other adults but I sure can stop you." A liberal will respond "but
why is is dirty and bad?" Frankly, I have NEVER seen a valid response
to that earth-shattering question. Most people believe it is a truism
so they assume no one will question it. They go ahead from that stance
and say that kids should be delayed from entering that "dirty" world as
long as possible. But ask them why is sex dirty and they scramble to
change the subject. Because I don't think there is any valid answer.
As I have stated, numerous times, and am getting pretty fucking sick of
repeating myself... I DO NOT think sex is dirty, evil, bad... etc.
I have never read where you have said that. But...so what?
Post by Twinkle Toes
I believe that ANYTHING can be potentially destructive, if used in a
negative manner.
Case in point: I have a pound of sugar in my cupboard.
Put it on BG's cornflakes.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Take the Reality Test. i dare you.
*slap* You're one of the VERY last people I would take parental advice
from.
BG never mentioned parental advice. He said "Wait till you
make a new acquaintance with a kid who does not know you are a
conservative."

Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 9, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, America 0, New
Acquaintance kids 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
There is a huge communication gulf between kids and adults because they
know that the adult will dump on them as soon as they open up. So they
stay quiet and the only adults who know about what kids really are
doing are the pedophiles, liberals and, to a lesser extent, the
school-teachers who cannot avoid overhearing things they sometimes wish
they did not. In a way, it's a private joke. The conservative parents
on one side, everyone else on the other. Trouble is, it stops being a
joke when an information leak occurs.
BG, this is RIGHT ON! I know exactly what you mean. Bravo.

Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 10, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, America 0, New
Acquaintance kids 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
I think he fits into groups 1 and 3. Although, I've always viewed him as
a large, steaming pile of number 2. LOLOLOL : P
Failed attempt at humor.

Kidwell 3, Busy Guy 9, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, America 0, New
Acquaintance kids 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Supposing a child under
the age of 16 decides to have sex with someone, who is also underaged...
well, THAT is not illegal
Sorry, it is illegal in most jurisdictions. And it has lead to some
horror stories right here in this group. The cruelty and downright
fucking moronic attitude of some lawmakers and law enforcers is too
strange for fiction. Only in America...
Uh... WRONG. I've yet to see an underaged couple get busted for messing
around... at least not in my state. Only in cases where a child was
forcibly raped by another, has there been any legal intervention.
Idiot! BG is right on the money again. I thought you wee reading in here.

Kidwell 3, Busy Guy 10, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, America 0, New
Acquaintance kids 1, Poor, criminalized kids in America 1, Twinkle Toes 1

AW

================================================================
Hogwasher: You don't have to sacrifice friendliness for power
http://www.asar.com/cgi-bin/product.pl?58/hogwasher.html
================================================================

*** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com ***
Sekhmet
2006-04-27 21:07:05 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:08:47 +0400, in article
<4450b4cf$0$14489$***@titian.nntpserver.com>, Arthur Wendleson
(***@NOSPAMhotmail.com) laid themselves atop the sacrificial
altar, and recited a testicular dedication mantra, which was then
decrypted by *a source who shall remain nameless*, and roughly translates
to...
Post by Arthur Wendleson
Post by Twinkle Toes
BusyGuy ripped open a bag of Fritos, watched the inhabitants of a Sears'
dressing room masturbate ferociously, and sputtered...
Post by BusyGuy
At last...an intelligent debater! Thanks.
Hey, BusyGuy, don't count on this. Twinkle Toes is just another sock puppet
for Laffy Taffy and all the other trolls. He/She is just as big a fucking
idiot as the others.
Post by Twinkle Toes
*smirk* Kidwell says I'm st00pid. LOLOLOL
Kidwell was right. Busy Guy was wrong.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply both to the
act of having sex with children & the actual condition of being sexually
attracted to them.
That could be the fault of ignorant journalists who love to put their
pretty faces and empty heads on television.
Uh... no. I rarely watch TV. The aforementioned definition can be found
in just about ANY current dictionary, which is where I obtained it.
Post by BusyGuy
Pedophilia is not commonly
considered to be the act of having sex with children, it is more
usually applied to the mental state of being attracted (usually
sexually attracted) to children. And specifically to pre-pubescent
children, at that.
I never thought it applied directly to the *act* of having sex with
children, either. But then, I looked it up, and found otherwise.
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 1, Twinkle Toes 0
"Pedophilia (American English), or pædophilia/paedophilia (Commonwealth
English), is the paraphilia of being sexually attracted primarily or
exclusively to pre-pubescent children. Persons with this attraction are
called pedophiles."
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia>
"Pedophilia (US) or paedophilia / pædophilia (UK), from the Greek ?????????
(paidophilia) < ??? (pais) "boy, child" and ????? (philia) "friendship",
(ICD-10 F65.4) is the condition of people whose primary sexual attraction is
toward prepubescent children. It is a chronophilia, i.e. a paraphilia in
which the paraphile's sexuoerotic age is discordant with his or her actual
chronological age and is concordant with the age of the partner. It is often
used informally to describe people attracted to adolescents, or to describe
child sex offenders. Pedosexuality is used as a synonym.
Definitions
The term "Paedophilia erotica" was coined in 1896 by the Vienna psychiatrist
Richard von Krafft-Ebing in his writing Psychopathia sexualis. The following
o the sexual interest is toward children, either prepubescent or at the
beginning of puberty
o the sexual interest is the primary one, i. e. exclusively or mainly toward
children
o the sexual interest remains over time"
<http://encycl.opentopia.com/term/Pedophilia>
"psychosexual disorder in which there is a preference for sexual activity
with prepubertal children"
<http://www.reference.com/browse/columbia/pedophil>
"A sexual interest in children (of either sex)"
<http://www.reference.com/browse/crystal/23992>
"Sexual attraction to a child"
<http://www.reasoned.org/glossary.htm>
"(COD) noun. sexual desire directed towards children."
<http://www.anglican.ca/faith/ethics/hsrg/terminology.htm>
"From its Greek roots, pedophilia implies love of a child ("paidos" +
"philia"). In practice, pedophiles are typically adult males with exclusive
sexual preferences for prepubescent boys and/or girls. Adult women can be
diagnosed as pedophiles as well as some postpubertal adolescents. Pedophilia
is not synonomous with child molestation ( pedophilia being a subcategory of
child molestation). There are clear and specific criteria for diagnosing
pedophilia in the DSM"
<http://www.forensicexaminers.com/terminology.html>
"Sexual love of a child by an adult"
<http://www.panteraconsulting.com/sexual_words_3.htm>
"a sexual attraction to children"
<http:/www.wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn>
I think Busy Guy should stand by his rebuttal of the assertion that the word
also extends, in its definition, to the _act_ of having sexual contact with a
child. In layman-speak, it often might. In discussions of a serious nature in
here, it might sometimes but, in my opinion, it should not because it does
not in the vocabularies of the medical or legal professions.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Usenet trolls and other sundry morons occasionally misuse the word
deliberately, for their own agendas.
Are you somehow unaware that *I* am one of those Trolls? Tsk.. tsk.. you
really SHOULD read the headers, more often.
Hey, Buy Guy. See, I told you.
You are wasting good time debating with a fucking TROLL!
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
I define a *child* as someone who is physically
and/or mentally underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions.
I think that's a mistake. "Child" has a legal meaning, which differs
from juridiction to jurisdiction. It also has an everyday meaning and I
do not think your definition fits the common meaning.
Let's not get technical... I'm sure you know what I mean.
Some of us might, others might not. Busy Guy is an intelligent and reasoned
debater. You make a mistake in saying "Lets not get technical". He will use
it against you later.
Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 2, Twinkle Toes 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Your definition would encompass adults with a developmental disability.
Quite true. I believe they should also be closely guarded, due to their
vulnerable state of mind. This would also apply to certain types of
senior citizens, as well... specifically, those in nursing homes, who
experience some level of incoherency, and often find themselves at the
mercy of a devious CNA with ulterior motives.
Post by BusyGuy
Such people can present _as_ children but are _not_ children in the
accepted sense, i think.
I think mental competence is a HUGE determining factor, regardless of
age.
But not in a debate about paedophilia which, more or less ipso facto,
focuses on age. I think no paedophile will have any romantic interest in a
geriatric with a mental age of 15.
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 3, Twinkle Toes 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
I suggest that, if the debate is about pedophilia, the word "child"
should refer to a pre-pubertal person. If the debate is about the law,
the word should refer to a person under the age of consent in the
jurisdiction in question. If the debate is about societal attitudes,
perhaps the word should be omitted on the ground of ambiguity or
uncertainty.
I suggest you accept my current terminology... AS IS. I'm not a food
processor, don't expect me to mince.
Oooh a hint of trollism already. And the debate is just warming up.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
It is none of my business what others choose to fantasize
about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell, making statements to the
effect of "if it's old enough to say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"...
Did he say that? I missed it.
Yep.
Post by BusyGuy
"Have sex with" is also an emotion-charged and ambiguous term. i think
it, too, should not be used in any serious debate because no one knows
what the user means exactly.
Oh, good grief! I think everyone knows what "have sex with" entails.
bullshit.
Post by Twinkle Toes
The numerous variations of said act do not discount the fact that it is
still, essentially in the very general sense... SEX. Oral, anal,
vaginal, mutual masturbation and so forth... are ALL valid forms of
sexual activity, between two or more people.
Besides, I was quoting Chrissy... take it up with him.
No, you used it to make a point that Busy Guy sought to raise with you. It is
therefore _your understanding_ of Kidwell's comment that counts in this case.
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 4, Twinkle Toes 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
What level of savagery would this country degrade to
Naughty naughty. Please don't be one of those who thinks _their_
country is the only one in the world.
Excuse you? Are you attempting to dictate what I should or should not
think/type?
You really are degenerating quickly into real trollism. BG did not "dictate"
anything. He requested. He said "Please don't..."
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, Twinkle Toes 0
I am a citizen of USA
ok
, and am addressing fellow Americans.
Not ok.
You are not addressing "fellow Americans." At first you were addressing
fellow usenet-users world-wide and, now, you are addressing BG. I am assuming
he is not a "fellow American" as I also am not.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Foreigners can fill in the blanks, where necessary.
How, if you do not give the information for them/us to do so?
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, World Usenet community 1, Twinkle Toes 0
I'm not interested
Post by Twinkle Toes
in debating the legalities/social norms...etc.. of other countries...
just my own... since I DO live here, after all. However, I feel deep
sympathy for ANY child, in ANY part of the world, who is being abused.
You arrogant cunt. You do not live "HERE". you live "THERE". Stop being such
a jingoistic fucking American. If you are not interested in debating on a
neutral platform, if you are so fucking ego-centric that no other country
interests you, if you are so willing to descend into using bullshit
language then you have already lost your argument.
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Twinkle Toes 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
, if everyone was
allowed to do anything they want, just because it *turns them on*??? We
don't need another Thailand
Huh?
1 Who says there is any such place where "everyone is allowed to do
anything [he] wants?"
Did you somehow miss the word "IF"?????
Your juxtaposition of a mention of Thailand, immediately after your first
sentence, clearly implies that you believe "Thailand is a place where
everyone can do anything they want, just because it turns them on, and we
don't need another place like that. If we did have another Thailand 'this
country' would descend into savagery."
In that reconstruction, which I believe is completely valid, your "if" is in
the right place. BG defeats you again.
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1,
Twinkle Toes 0
Although no country is entirely
Post by Twinkle Toes
Anarchic, some are bordering that particular political spectrum more
closely than others. *cough* Holland *cough*
Absolutely wrong. The Netherlands is a heavily-controlled country. It is, for
example, believed to be making more use of telephone tapping than any other
country. The patina of laissez-faire government is brought about by its
liberal attitude to marijuana but that is almost its only claim to
liberalism.
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Twinkle Toes 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Because (a) It is certainly not true that everyone has such a right in
Thailand; (b) if it were true, what business would it be of people
outside Thailand?
Yes, I know that, because I live in another country, I'm supposed to
somehow turn off my *HUMANITY* switch. Maybe that's an easy feat for a
robot such as yourself, but I'm a human being with a heart. Suffering is
suffering, regardless of where it occurs... and I MAKE the dissolution of
such atrocities *MY* business. Just as my post was a response to Frank,
and you chose to make it YOUR business.
Oh. what's this? Compassion for externals after all. Interesting.
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 5, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Are you saying people's feelings are unimportant???
BG said no such thing. I have carefully read what he/she wrote.
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 6, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Ha! I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL, if that is your stance.
Post by BusyGuy
You also demonstrate an error of logic here. Though there might be "far
more pressing issues", that is not a good reason to avoid debating
_this_ issue. If it were, the whole world would be constrained to
debate just one issue. (And the Big Argument would be "which issue?")
Where did I state that only ONE issue is worthy of debate???
Where did BG say that you did?
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 7, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
ALL governments address issues, based
on importance, relevance & necessity.
Wrong. Governments address issues based on popularity.
Kidwell 1, Busy Guy 7, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
there are many things about Christopher's posts that I don't agree
with.
Wasting time arguing with trolls is one of them.
I have come to acquire the reverse attitude... the Trolls are wasting
their time on him, including me. His head is like a sieve.
There are many people who passionately invite them/you to stop wasting said
time.
Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 7, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Even a dedicated and committed pedophile does not fantasize about such
a situation. Instead, most of them dream of having one consenting
partner with whom a genuine affection can be shared ? with or without
physical activity ? in the absence of strong disapproval from others
who have, in the opinion of the pedophile, no proper ground to become
involved.
Who are you to assume what ALL pedophiles fantasize about?
Wrong again. You did not read what BG typed. He did not say "all" he said
"most". You really should sharpen your typing finger before you use it.
Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 7, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, Twinkle Toes 1
All hostility directed at America is
Post by Twinkle Toes
usually based on nothing but sheer jealousy.
What a clown you are.
Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 8, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, Twinkle Toes 1
America 0
Post by Twinkle Toes
I have a headache THIS big, because of you.
Oh no. surely not. (snigger)
Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 9, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, America 0, Twinkle
Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Try this mental exercise:?
Grab your ankles. *deploys paddle*
Post by BusyGuy
Adult: "You must not engage in sexual activity."
Child: Why?"
Adult: "Because at your age it is wrong."
Child: "Why?"
Adult: "Because you want to do it with a much older person. That is
doubly-wrong."
Child: "Why?"
You fill in the rest.
Hey, let's fill that hole in your ass, instead. *deploys strap-on*
It's time for YOU to be the bitch.
Funny how you completely failed to respond to this.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
I think many parents want to say "Sex per se is dirty and bad. I cannot
stop other adults but I sure can stop you." A liberal will respond "but
why is is dirty and bad?" Frankly, I have NEVER seen a valid response
to that earth-shattering question. Most people believe it is a truism
so they assume no one will question it. They go ahead from that stance
and say that kids should be delayed from entering that "dirty" world as
long as possible. But ask them why is sex dirty and they scramble to
change the subject. Because I don't think there is any valid answer.
As I have stated, numerous times, and am getting pretty fucking sick of
repeating myself... I DO NOT think sex is dirty, evil, bad... etc.
I have never read where you have said that. But...so what?
Post by Twinkle Toes
I believe that ANYTHING can be potentially destructive, if used in a
negative manner.
Case in point: I have a pound of sugar in my cupboard.
Put it on BG's cornflakes.
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Take the Reality Test. i dare you.
*slap* You're one of the VERY last people I would take parental advice
from.
BG never mentioned parental advice. He said "Wait till you
make a new acquaintance with a kid who does not know you are a
conservative."
Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 9, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, America 0, New
Acquaintance kids 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
There is a huge communication gulf between kids and adults because they
know that the adult will dump on them as soon as they open up. So they
stay quiet and the only adults who know about what kids really are
doing are the pedophiles, liberals and, to a lesser extent, the
school-teachers who cannot avoid overhearing things they sometimes wish
they did not. In a way, it's a private joke. The conservative parents
on one side, everyone else on the other. Trouble is, it stops being a
joke when an information leak occurs.
BG, this is RIGHT ON! I know exactly what you mean. Bravo.
Kidwell 2, Busy Guy 10, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, America 0, New
Acquaintance kids 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
I think he fits into groups 1 and 3. Although, I've always viewed him as
a large, steaming pile of number 2. LOLOLOL : P
Failed attempt at humor.
Kidwell 3, Busy Guy 9, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, America 0, New
Acquaintance kids 1, Twinkle Toes 1
Post by Twinkle Toes
Post by BusyGuy
Post by Twinkle Toes
Supposing a child under
the age of 16 decides to have sex with someone, who is also underaged...
well, THAT is not illegal
Sorry, it is illegal in most jurisdictions. And it has lead to some
horror stories right here in this group. The cruelty and downright
fucking moronic attitude of some lawmakers and law enforcers is too
strange for fiction. Only in America...
Uh... WRONG. I've yet to see an underaged couple get busted for messing
around... at least not in my state. Only in cases where a child was
forcibly raped by another, has there been any legal intervention.
Idiot! BG is right on the money again. I thought you wee reading in here.
Kidwell 3, Busy Guy 10, World Usenet community 1, Supporters of
legalities/social norms in other countries 1, Nice people of Thailand 1, Nice
people of Netherlands 1, Governments 1, Most pedophiles 1, America 0, New
Acquaintance kids 1, Poor, criminalized kids in America 1, Twinkle Toes 1
AW
LMFAO! Whose this conceited windbag/ham??? Apparently, one of my fans.
*smirk*

An entire village of Kidwells and BusyGuys cannot gain the upper-hand on
me... what makes you think you're capable of such a task??? Rebuttals of
the scorecard variety are not impressive nor witty... but merely a
shameful display of how far you will sink to fellate your pedo clan pals.
I MUST ask... did you give yourself a big pat on the back, after posting
this... rant? Did you moonwalk? Or, perhaps... you held up a tube of
Mentos, and winked at your reflection in the monitor??? Unfortunately, I
must report that, in all of Harlem, a bigger ass than you cannot be
found. Heh I hope you enjoyed your five minutes of Usenet fame, dunce.
--
http://www.bhaktiwicca.org/aboutSekhmet.htm
Secret Squirrel
2006-04-24 18:13:33 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Twinkle Toes
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply
both to the act of having sex with children & the actual
condition of being sexually attracted to them.
No, it's an orientation, because people have sex with
"children", however society defines it, without having a
primary sexual attraction to them. In fact, about 50 %
of criminal child sexual molestation cases involve adults
who aren't clinically pedophiles.
Post by Twinkle Toes
I define a
*child* as someone who is physically and/or mentally
underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions.
How much logic and maturity does it take to give or get
a blowjob?

Isn't that we recognize in sex ed? Having sex is easy and
doesn't require much maturity at all, while maintaining a
marriage, and raising kids, is hard? The sex is nothing.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It is none of my business what others choose to
fantasize about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell,
making statements to the effect of "if it's old enough to
say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"... then yes, I find
it deeply disturbing, and will not hesitate to jump on his
case. When people can no longer distinguish fantasy from
reality, problems arise... BIG ones. Expressing your
arousal over a particular perversion is one thing, claiming
you should have a legal right to act upon said desires is a
whole 'nother matter, entirely.
Same thing could be, and has, been said about any sexual
activity by those who oppose it. Including B&C's "swinging".

There are some of us who think that this thing called
"freedom" should be the default.
Post by Twinkle Toes
And, unfortunately the
latter has became a frequent occurrence in ASGL & ASBL.
What level of savagery would this country degrade to, if
everyone was allowed to do anything they want, just because
it *turns them on*???
Dude: your latent Christianity is showing.

As long as no one get hurt, who cares?
Post by Twinkle Toes
We don't need another Thailand, Africa, or Haiti.
What do you have against these places?
Post by Twinkle Toes
Like it or not, any half- way civilized
nation has it's rules & regulations that citizens are
expected to abide by.
Aw, I see. Allowing people sexual freedom is uncivilized,
but threatening the planet with nuclear Armageddon for the
past 50 years is the height of great civilization. Like Gandhi,
I'm all for Western Civilization--I think it would be a *great*
idea.

You better go back to square one and re-think things,
starting from a morality that focuses on the real, tangible,
material consequences of peoples' actions. In the absence
of strong mores and punishments, and taking care against
unwanted pregnancy and disease and other material dangers,
the only tangible, material, consequence of any consexual
sexuality between people of any age is orgasms.

And I don't see preventing orgasms as a compelling state
interest, no.

Secret Squirrel
bobandcarole
2006-04-24 18:38:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Secret Squirrel
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Post by Twinkle Toes
According to several references, pedophilia seems to apply
both to the act of having sex with children & the actual
condition of being sexually attracted to them.
No, it's an orientation, because people have sex with
"children", however society defines it, without having a
primary sexual attraction to them. In fact, about 50 %
of criminal child sexual molestation cases involve adults
who aren't clinically pedophiles.
Post by Twinkle Toes
I define a
*child* as someone who is physically and/or mentally
underdeveloped, and incapable of making logical, mature
decisions.
How much logic and maturity does it take to give or get
a blowjob?
Isn't that we recognize in sex ed? Having sex is easy and
doesn't require much maturity at all, while maintaining a
marriage, and raising kids, is hard? The sex is nothing.
Post by Twinkle Toes
It is none of my business what others choose to
fantasize about... but when I see nutbags, like Kidwell,
making statements to the effect of "if it's old enough to
say yes, it's OK to have sex with it"... then yes, I find
it deeply disturbing, and will not hesitate to jump on his
case. When people can no longer distinguish fantasy from
reality, problems arise... BIG ones. Expressing your
arousal over a particular perversion is one thing, claiming
you should have a legal right to act upon said desires is a
whole 'nother matter, entirely.
Same thing could be, and has, been said about any sexual
activity by those who oppose it. Including B&C's "swinging".
There are some of us who think that this thing called
"freedom" should be the default.
Post by Twinkle Toes
And, unfortunately the
latter has became a frequent occurrence in ASGL & ASBL.
What level of savagery would this country degrade to, if
everyone was allowed to do anything they want, just because
it *turns them on*???
Dude: your latent Christianity is showing.
As long as no one get hurt, who cares?
Post by Twinkle Toes
We don't need another Thailand, Africa, or Haiti.
What do you have against these places?
Post by Twinkle Toes
Like it or not, any half- way civilized
nation has it's rules & regulations that citizens are
expected to abide by.
Aw, I see. Allowing people sexual freedom is uncivilized,
but threatening the planet with nuclear Armageddon for the
past 50 years is the height of great civilization. Like Gandhi,
I'm all for Western Civilization--I think it would be a *great*
idea.
You better go back to square one and re-think things,
starting from a morality that focuses on the real, tangible,
material consequences of peoples' actions. In the absence
of strong mores and punishments, and taking care against
unwanted pregnancy and disease and other material dangers,
the only tangible, material, consequence of any consexual
sexuality between people of any age is orgasms.
And I don't see preventing orgasms as a compelling state
interest, no.
Uhhh NO......

It's about child molestation and child molesters will always be hunted
and punished for their crimes against children
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