Discussion:
Hello.
(too old to reply)
Frank McCoy
2010-06-25 03:08:18 UTC
Permalink
I'm back ... Sort of.

Sorry I can't talk about the case, except that it's still ongoing.
Judge Sands heard the case ... And hasn't made any rulings yet; either
on the motions or on the verdict itself.

As you can see, I just got permission to use the Internet, Usenet, and
Email. I can't post stories and will not be discussing either stories
or the case. Sorry. Any posts or comments to me about either will be
ignored. Still, things are better than they were.

I *WILL* correct ONE misconception I read in catching up however:

I have *always* held that my stories are legal.
That being the basis of my entire defense.

Some people might say they are illegal, because of various laws.
So ... Ponder this:
Was it illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus?
Or ... Was the law itself illegal?

Sorry, but further than that, I won't be entering the discussion.
;-{

Wish I could.

--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
David
2010-06-25 03:21:09 UTC
Permalink
[Default] On Thu, 24 Jun 2010 22:08:18 -0500, Frank McCoy
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm back ... Sort of.
Sorry I can't talk about the case, except that it's still ongoing.
Judge Sands heard the case ... And hasn't made any rulings yet; either
on the motions or on the verdict itself.
As you can see, I just got permission to use the Internet, Usenet, and
Email. I can't post stories and will not be discussing either stories
or the case. Sorry. Any posts or comments to me about either will be
ignored. Still, things are better than they were.
I have *always* held that my stories are legal.
That being the basis of my entire defense.
Some people might say they are illegal, because of various laws.
Was it illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus?
Or ... Was the law itself illegal?
Sorry, but further than that, I won't be entering the discussion.
;-{
Wish I could.
Welcome back, Frank. I agree that the law requiring Rosa Parks to sit at
the rear of the bus was illegal. I won't tempt you further.
--
David
No email replies please.
You are the only person to ever get this message.
Nick Cramer
2010-06-25 06:36:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm back ... Sort of.
Good to see you back, Frank. Best wishes for your personal life, too!
--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/ Thank a Veteran!
Support Our Troops: http://anymarine.com/ You are not forgotten.
Thanks ! ! ~Semper Fi~ USMC 1365061
Oglethorpe
2010-06-25 13:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm back ... Sort of.
Sorry I can't talk about the case, except that it's still ongoing.
Judge Sands heard the case ... And hasn't made any rulings yet; either
on the motions or on the verdict itself.
As you can see, I just got permission to use the Internet, Usenet, and
Email. I can't post stories and will not be discussing either stories
or the case. Sorry. Any posts or comments to me about either will be
ignored. Still, things are better than they were.
I have *always* held that my stories are legal.
That being the basis of my entire defense.
Some people might say they are illegal, because of various laws.
Was it illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus?
Or ... Was the law itself illegal?
Sorry, but further than that, I won't be entering the discussion.
;-{
Wish I could.
What so many forget: Literally millions of people throughout history died
horrible, disgusting, painful deaths to secure the freedoms we enjoy. All
because they dared to stand up against unjust laws. Frank's stories are no
different than stories about a mad corpse in a hockey mask who hacks up
teenagers, another mad corpse in a halloween mask who hacks up teenagers or
a crazed psychiatrist who eats people who offend him. They're all fiction.
No one emulates the writings of the Marqis de Sade. Not even the Marqis de
Sade. Mary Shelly didn't build bodies from corpses. Bram Stroker didn't
drink blood.


Good luck if you're the real Frank McCoy.
Usenet Legends bobandcarole $$$
2010-06-27 17:39:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Oglethorpe
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm back ... Sort of.
Sorry I can't talk about the case, except that it's still ongoing.
Judge Sands heard the case ... And hasn't made any rulings yet; either
on the motions or on the verdict itself.
As you can see, I just got permission to use the Internet, Usenet, and
Email. I can't post stories and will not be discussing either stories
or the case. Sorry. Any posts or comments to me about either will be
ignored. Still, things are better than they were.
I have *always* held that my stories are legal.
That being the basis of my entire defense.
Some people might say they are illegal, because of various laws.
Was it illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus?
Or ... Was the law itself illegal?
Sorry, but further than that, I won't be entering the discussion.
;-{
Wish I could.
What so many forget: Literally millions of people throughout history died
horrible, disgusting, painful deaths to secure the freedoms we enjoy.
And frankie freek should be next ...


__

#1 pedophile hunter: the wikisposure project.
http://www.wikisposure.com/Alt.support.boy-lovers
#5 ruiner of usenet.
Owner and trainer of Tom Evans aka "mad as a box of frogs"
Tom Evans picture: http://yfrog.com/5zt0mevansj
"Publicity is publicity, good or bad it's STILL publicity"~ Alice
Cooper
"Did you plug the hole yet Daddy?"~~Malia Obama
Now I know why they call him tiger, "Eldrick Tont Woods"?? LMAO!!
Uncle Sky
2010-06-25 15:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm back ... Sort of.
Sorry I can't talk about the case, except that it's still ongoing.
Judge Sands heard the case ... And hasn't made any rulings yet; either
on the motions or on the verdict itself.
As you can see, I just got permission to use the Internet, Usenet, and
Email. I can't post stories and will not be discussing either stories
or the case. Sorry. Any posts or comments to me about either will be
ignored. Still, things are better than they were.
I have *always* held that my stories are legal.
That being the basis of my entire defense.
Some people might say they are illegal, because of various laws.
Was it illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus?
Or ... Was the law itself illegal?
Sorry, but further than that, I won't be entering the discussion.
;-{
Wish I could.
Very glad to see you back. I hope nothing I have posted is a problem.
--
Uncle Sky
Frank McCoy
2010-06-25 16:29:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Uncle Sky
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm back ... Sort of.
Sorry I can't talk about the case, except that it's still ongoing.
Judge Sands heard the case ... And hasn't made any rulings yet; either
on the motions or on the verdict itself.
As you can see, I just got permission to use the Internet, Usenet, and
Email. I can't post stories and will not be discussing either stories
or the case. Sorry. Any posts or comments to me about either will be
ignored. Still, things are better than they were.
I have *always* held that my stories are legal.
That being the basis of my entire defense.
Some people might say they are illegal, because of various laws.
Was it illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus?
Or ... Was the law itself illegal?
Sorry, but further than that, I won't be entering the discussion.
;-{
Wish I could.
Very glad to see you back. I hope nothing I have posted is a problem.
Nope.
Thanks.

--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Baal
2010-06-26 09:44:14 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy wrote in alt.fan.frank.mccoy on Thursday 24 June 2010 23:08 in
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm back ... Sort of.
It's good to see you posting again; you've been missed.
Post by Frank McCoy
Sorry I can't talk about the case, except that it's still ongoing.
Judge Sands heard the case ... And hasn't made any rulings yet; either
on the motions or on the verdict itself.
That's ok. You just do what you have to do to protect yourself, ok?
Post by Frank McCoy
As you can see, I just got permission to use the Internet, Usenet, and
Email.
That's wonderful!
Post by Frank McCoy
I can't post stories and will not be discussing either stories
or the case. Sorry. Any posts or comments to me about either will be
ignored. Still, things are better than they were.
There are questions about the case that I'm just *dying* to ask... however,
I'll just have to wait for the transcript to come out and/or ruling to come
down. I can't tell you how happy I am to see that you're back.
Post by Frank McCoy
I have *always* held that my stories are legal.
That being the basis of my entire defense.
I've never heard you say otherwise.
Post by Frank McCoy
Some people might say they are illegal, because of various laws.
Was it illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus?
Or ... Was the law itself illegal?
Sorry, but further than that, I won't be entering the discussion.
;-{
Wish I could.
I wish you could discuss it too, but I'll settle for being able to talk to
you on Usenet.
Post by Frank McCoy
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Baal <***@Usenet.org>
PGP Key: http://wwwkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x1E92C0E8
PGP Key Fingerprint: 40E4 E9BB D084 22D5 3DE9  66B8 08E3 638C 1E92 C0E8
- --

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?"    --    "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
                                 -- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD

"We learned during the McCarthy era that when the State gets behind a moral
panic, no one is safe."
                                                            -- Bob Chatelle

"If you read the same things as others and say the same things they say,
then you're perceived as intelligent. I'm a bit more independent and
radical and consider intelligence the ability to think about matters on
your own and ask a lot of skeptical questions to get at the real truth,
not just what you're told it is."
                                               -- iWoz - Steve Wozniak 2006

Mistrust those in whom the urge to punish is strong.
                                                      --Friedrich Nietzsche

He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
oppression.
                                                            -- Thomas Paine
David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
2010-06-26 16:35:07 UTC
Permalink
I was recently moved to compose this rant. With Frank's return it
seems approprate to post it.

Have we as a society grown so irrational and psychotic that we have to
be reminded that there is a boundary between the reality outside
our heads and the fantasies within? Are we in danger of drifting into
a stupefied slumber where the figments of our dreams can claim the
rights that we have previously reserved for concrete entities?

The characters of fiction, written down as literature, drawn as manga
or anime, expressed in the multitude of means technology has granted
to us, lack independent agency. By hijacking our mind's ability to
empathise and reason about other minds they create the cognitive
illusion that they exist.

However we must remember that without sentience, without true moral
agency, these mental phantasms whose pseudo-existence is purely within
the mind of there hosts can make no ethical claims to the concrete
world outside. I can imagine the vilest crimes of crimes within my head
without harming a single creature of ethical consequence. I can
commit fictional atrocities whose magnitude and horror eclipse the
worst tyrant's genocide but still act and be in every way a moral,
ethical contributor to society.

This fact should be obvious to every sane adult, indeed learning to
distinguish between the imaginary and the real is one of the
prerequisites for being an adult. I should not need to devote three
paragraphs of text to hammering this point but unfortunately I feel I
must. People have been charged, prosecuted and punished for this
style of thought crime.

If such actions where mistakes of a more censorious past one could
look back with the knowledge of lessons learned. However not only are
real people being prosecuted for crimes against fake people in the
present laws are being passed to make it easier to prosecute this in
the future.
Frank McCoy
2010-06-26 17:24:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
I was recently moved to compose this rant. With Frank's return it
seems approprate to post it.
Have we as a society grown so irrational and psychotic that we have to
be reminded that there is a boundary between the reality outside
our heads and the fantasies within? Are we in danger of drifting into
a stupefied slumber where the figments of our dreams can claim the
rights that we have previously reserved for concrete entities?
The characters of fiction, written down as literature, drawn as manga
or anime, expressed in the multitude of means technology has granted
to us, lack independent agency. By hijacking our mind's ability to
empathise and reason about other minds they create the cognitive
illusion that they exist.
However we must remember that without sentience, without true moral
agency, these mental phantasms whose pseudo-existence is purely within
the mind of there hosts can make no ethical claims to the concrete
world outside. I can imagine the vilest crimes of crimes within my head
without harming a single creature of ethical consequence. I can
commit fictional atrocities whose magnitude and horror eclipse the
worst tyrant's genocide but still act and be in every way a moral,
ethical contributor to society.
This fact should be obvious to every sane adult, indeed learning to
distinguish between the imaginary and the real is one of the
prerequisites for being an adult. I should not need to devote three
paragraphs of text to hammering this point but unfortunately I feel I
must. People have been charged, prosecuted and punished for this
style of thought crime.
If such actions where mistakes of a more censorious past one could
look back with the knowledge of lessons learned. However not only are
real people being prosecuted for crimes against fake people in the
present laws are being passed to make it easier to prosecute this in
the future.
Reply trimmed to affm but adding AC; because (for now) I'm avoiding
posting to assd.
Don't want people thinking I'm discussing sex-stories.
Yet I think this discussion might be pertinent in alt.callahans.

;-{

There are many supposed reasons behind censorship; but the basis is
always thought-control.

Whether religious or political, the idea is usually considered (by the
censors) benign. Rarely do they think of themselves as evil. They're
just "Protecting the Public" from evil or anti-government influences.

THEY, of course, are mature and above being influenced by such nasty
works and propaganda; but only THEY can resist such temptation. They
cannot allow the Public to be swayed or corrupted by wicked, nasty, or
even the mention of any values that contradict their own.

Of course, BEHIND all that blather, is the knowledge that if "they"
... the politicians, preachers, imams, or other people in-charge,
deciding "what is proper" for "those they are in charge of" to read,
see, or know, is that if said Public DOES find out that what they are
keeping from them, then quite possibly those in-power might be thrown
out, deposed, or (worst of all) just ignored!

Even in Miller v California, the current "standard" on which "obscene"
matters are judged, the Court noted that: "Obscene material may be
validly regulated by a State in the exercise of its traditional local
power to protect the general welfare of its population despite some
possible incidental effect on the flow of such materials across state
lines."

Note those words: "protect the general welfare of its population"
Protect the population from WHAT?
Obscene ideas?
Dirty thoughts?
Ideas that are DIFFERENT from what the local preachers teach?

Mainly, it's IDEAS that the local community find objectionable.

Think about that.

The AIM is to control or at least LIMIT what people know and think.

Yet, it's that very control and limitation that the First Amendment
was written to stop.

Yet, for some reason, SEX seems to be the choking-point, even for
Supreme Court judges supposedly the very last stop in those protecting
our liberties.

I guess even THEY cannot get over the brainwashing built into our
society by preachers, customs, and yes, our modern media. ;-{

Well, at least they aren't *quite* as anti-sex as some communities in
the world; viz: Ayatollahs in Iran and similar Sharia controlled
Muslim lands.

I still wonder though: Why SEX?

Looking at most primitive societies (from which ours was derived) I
just don't see the preponderance of anti-sex attitudes. Sexuality
controlled for inheritance and lineage purposes, yes. Sex inhibited
because it's sex, no. Most early communities *celebrated* sex.

So ... How did OUR society (and even more-so some/many/most? Muslim
ones) become so anti-sex, anti-human-body-display?

What's weird, is that those communities that are the most free with
sexuality, liberty, and bodily-displays, are the ones with the LEAST
amount of rape, child-abuse, and downgrading of women; while those
societies with the most restrictive dress-codes and what they allow
people to see, discuss, or even *think* about sex and sexuality, are
the most repressive, most violent towards women, and yes, the ones
with the greatest amount of child-abuse. At the same time, those very
societies are CLAIMING that the REASON for such rules, censorship, and
anti-sex attitudes are to PROTECT women and children!

Is it just insanity, inability to see reality, brainwashing from
birth, or deliberate (Insert your own conspiracy theory here.) attempt
by those in control to keep their positions?

Of course, there's always Occam's Razor:
Methinks the most likely reason is The Law of Unintended Consequences.
;-{

So MANY laws and customs and ideas SOUND so good ... Yet have
disastrous consequences if enacted or followed.
Examples:

Communism ... Sounds GREAT ... Until a country tries it.

Passing laws to deny Public Support to Planned Parenthood, because
they give out information on abortion, as a method to decrease
abortion.

Prohibition to prevent drunken fathers from abusing children.

Our present "war on drugs".

Need I go on?

--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Baal
2010-06-28 03:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Frank McCoy wrote in alt.fan.frank.mccoy on Saturday 26 June 2010 13:24 in
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
I was recently moved to compose this rant. With Frank's return it
seems approprate to post it.
Have we as a society grown so irrational and psychotic that we have to
be reminded that there is a boundary between the reality outside
our heads and the fantasies within? Are we in danger of drifting into
a stupefied slumber where the figments of our dreams can claim the
rights that we have previously reserved for concrete entities?
The characters of fiction, written down as literature, drawn as manga
or anime, expressed in the multitude of means technology has granted
to us, lack independent agency. By hijacking our mind's ability to
empathise and reason about other minds they create the cognitive
illusion that they exist.
However we must remember that without sentience, without true moral
agency, these mental phantasms whose pseudo-existence is purely within
the mind of there hosts can make no ethical claims to the concrete
world outside. I can imagine the vilest crimes of crimes within my head
without harming a single creature of ethical consequence. I can
commit fictional atrocities whose magnitude and horror eclipse the
worst tyrant's genocide but still act and be in every way a moral,
ethical contributor to society.
This fact should be obvious to every sane adult, indeed learning to
distinguish between the imaginary and the real is one of the
prerequisites for being an adult. I should not need to devote three
paragraphs of text to hammering this point but unfortunately I feel I
must. People have been charged, prosecuted and punished for this
style of thought crime.
If such actions where mistakes of a more censorious past one could
look back with the knowledge of lessons learned. However not only are
real people being prosecuted for crimes against fake people in the
present laws are being passed to make it easier to prosecute this in
the future.
Reply trimmed to affm but adding AC; because (for now) I'm avoiding
posting to assd.
Don't want people thinking I'm discussing sex-stories.
Yet I think this discussion might be pertinent in alt.callahans.
;-{
There are many supposed reasons behind censorship; but the basis is
always thought-control.
Whether religious or political, the idea is usually considered (by the
censors) benign. Rarely do they think of themselves as evil. They're
just "Protecting the Public" from evil or anti-government influences.
Naturally. They're only trying to protect the existing social order, after
all.
Post by Frank McCoy
THEY, of course, are mature and above being influenced by such nasty
works and propaganda; but only THEY can resist such temptation. They
cannot allow the Public to be swayed or corrupted by wicked, nasty, or
even the mention of any values that contradict their own.
The latest twist on this is, of course, "to protect the children!".
Post by Frank McCoy
Of course, BEHIND all that blather, is the knowledge that if "they"
... the politicians, preachers, imams, or other people in-charge,
deciding "what is proper" for "those they are in charge of" to read,
see, or know, is that if said Public DOES find out that what they are
keeping from them, then quite possibly those in-power might be thrown
out, deposed, or (worst of all) just ignored!
Yep.
Post by Frank McCoy
Even in Miller v California, the current "standard" on which "obscene"
matters are judged, the Court noted that: "Obscene material may be
validly regulated by a State in the exercise of its traditional local
power to protect the general welfare of its population despite some
possible incidental effect on the flow of such materials across state
lines."
Note those words: "protect the general welfare of its population"
Protect the population from WHAT?
Obscene ideas?
Dirty thoughts?
Ideas that are DIFFERENT from what the local preachers teach?
Mainly, it's IDEAS that the local community find objectionable.
You know, the only difference between America and the former U.S.S.R. is
the nature of the ideas that were controlled. In America, it's sex, in the
former U.S.S.R. it was politics.
Post by Frank McCoy
Think about that.
The AIM is to control or at least LIMIT what people know and think.
Which is why, since the advent of the printing press, that printers in
Britain (and later, in her colonies) had to be licensed by the Crown.

Even in Shakespeare's time, his plays had to be submitted for approval to
the Master of the Revels, before they were allowed to be performed.
Post by Frank McCoy
Yet, it's that very control and limitation that the First Amendment
was written to stop.
Indeed. The First Amendment to your constitution was put in place precisely
because of the historical actions of the British Crown in suppressing the
free flow of ideas.
Post by Frank McCoy
Yet, for some reason, SEX seems to be the choking-point, even for
Supreme Court judges supposedly the very last stop in those protecting
our liberties.
I guess even THEY cannot get over the brainwashing built into our
society by preachers, customs, and yes, our modern media. ;-{
Does this really come as a surprise? After all, they are products of the
society in which they grew up.
Post by Frank McCoy
Well, at least they aren't *quite* as anti-sex as some communities in
the world; viz: Ayatollahs in Iran and similar Sharia controlled
Muslim lands.
I still wonder though: Why SEX?
Perhaps because sex is one of the common things all people/societies share
as a result of our biology. It transcends race, class and economic status.
Post by Frank McCoy
Looking at most primitive societies (from which ours was derived) I
just don't see the preponderance of anti-sex attitudes. Sexuality
controlled for inheritance and lineage purposes, yes. Sex inhibited
because it's sex, no. Most early communities *celebrated* sex.
Yes, but these societies tended to be much closer to nature, and sex is
an undeniable part of nature. Later Christian and Islamic societies saw
themselves as /separate/ from nature, rather than being an integral part
of it. This trend is carried to extremes in our modern urban societies.
Post by Frank McCoy
So ... How did OUR society (and even more-so some/many/most? Muslim
ones) become so anti-sex, anti-human-body-display?
I dunno.
Post by Frank McCoy
What's weird, is that those communities that are the most free with
sexuality, liberty, and bodily-displays, are the ones with the LEAST
amount of rape, child-abuse, and downgrading of women; while those
societies with the most restrictive dress-codes and what they allow
people to see, discuss, or even *think* about sex and sexuality, are
the most repressive, most violent towards women, and yes, the ones
with the greatest amount of child-abuse. At the same time, those very
societies are CLAIMING that the REASON for such rules, censorship, and
anti-sex attitudes are to PROTECT women and children!
It's about control. If you can control what a person reads, or worse yet,
if they're allowed to read at all, then that goes a very long way to control
their behaviour.
Post by Frank McCoy
Is it just insanity, inability to see reality, brainwashing from
birth, or deliberate (Insert your own conspiracy theory here.) attempt
by those in control to keep their positions?
Perhaps all of the above.
Post by Frank McCoy
Methinks the most likely reason is The Law of Unintended Consequences.
;-{
So MANY laws and customs and ideas SOUND so good ... Yet have
disastrous consequences if enacted or followed.
Communism ... Sounds GREAT ... Until a country tries it.
Passing laws to deny Public Support to Planned Parenthood, because
they give out information on abortion, as a method to decrease
abortion.
Prohibition to prevent drunken fathers from abusing children.
Our present "war on drugs".
I can add one... support for, and arming of, the Mujahadeen to help drive
out the Soviets from Afghanistan.
Post by Frank McCoy
Need I go on?
I don't think so.
Post by Frank McCoy
--
_____
/ ' / ™
,-/-, __ __. ____ /_
(_/ / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
Baal <***@Usenet.org>
PGP Key: http://wwwkeys.pgp.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x1E92C0E8
PGP Key Fingerprint: 40E4 E9BB D084 22D5 3DE9  66B8 08E3 638C 1E92 C0E8
Retired Lecturer, Encryption and Data Security, Pedo U, Usenet Campus
- --

Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?"    --    "Who will watch the Watchmen?"
                                 -- Juvenal, Satires, VI, 347. circa 128 AD

"We learned during the McCarthy era that when the State gets behind a moral
panic, no one is safe."
                                                            -- Bob Chatelle

"If you read the same things as others and say the same things they say,
then you're perceived as intelligent. I'm a bit more independent and
radical and consider intelligence the ability to think about matters on
your own and ask a lot of skeptical questions to get at the real truth,
not just what you're told it is."
                                               -- iWoz - Steve Wozniak 2006

Mistrust those in whom the urge to punish is strong.
                                                      --Friedrich Nietzsche

He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from
oppression.
                                                            -- Thomas Paine
Oglethorpe
2010-06-28 14:30:58 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512
Frank McCoy wrote in alt.fan.frank.mccoy on Saturday 26 June 2010 13:24 in
Post by Frank McCoy
Post by David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
I was recently moved to compose this rant. With Frank's return it
seems approprate to post it.
Have we as a society grown so irrational and psychotic that we have to
be reminded that there is a boundary between the reality outside
our heads and the fantasies within? Are we in danger of drifting into
a stupefied slumber where the figments of our dreams can claim the
rights that we have previously reserved for concrete entities?
The characters of fiction, written down as literature, drawn as manga
or anime, expressed in the multitude of means technology has granted
to us, lack independent agency. By hijacking our mind's ability to
empathise and reason about other minds they create the cognitive
illusion that they exist.
However we must remember that without sentience, without true moral
agency, these mental phantasms whose pseudo-existence is purely within
the mind of there hosts can make no ethical claims to the concrete
world outside. I can imagine the vilest crimes of crimes within my head
without harming a single creature of ethical consequence. I can
commit fictional atrocities whose magnitude and horror eclipse the
worst tyrant's genocide but still act and be in every way a moral,
ethical contributor to society.
This fact should be obvious to every sane adult, indeed learning to
distinguish between the imaginary and the real is one of the
prerequisites for being an adult. I should not need to devote three
paragraphs of text to hammering this point but unfortunately I feel I
must. People have been charged, prosecuted and punished for this
style of thought crime.
If such actions where mistakes of a more censorious past one could
look back with the knowledge of lessons learned. However not only are
real people being prosecuted for crimes against fake people in the
present laws are being passed to make it easier to prosecute this in
the future.
Reply trimmed to affm but adding AC; because (for now) I'm avoiding
posting to assd.
Don't want people thinking I'm discussing sex-stories.
Yet I think this discussion might be pertinent in alt.callahans.
;-{
There are many supposed reasons behind censorship; but the basis is
always thought-control.
Whether religious or political, the idea is usually considered (by the
censors) benign. Rarely do they think of themselves as evil. They're
just "Protecting the Public" from evil or anti-government influences.
Naturally. They're only trying to protect the existing social order, after
all.
Post by Frank McCoy
THEY, of course, are mature and above being influenced by such nasty
works and propaganda; but only THEY can resist such temptation. They
cannot allow the Public to be swayed or corrupted by wicked, nasty, or
even the mention of any values that contradict their own.
The latest twist on this is, of course, "to protect the children!".
Post by Frank McCoy
Of course, BEHIND all that blather, is the knowledge that if "they"
... the politicians, preachers, imams, or other people in-charge,
deciding "what is proper" for "those they are in charge of" to read,
see, or know, is that if said Public DOES find out that what they are
keeping from them, then quite possibly those in-power might be thrown
out, deposed, or (worst of all) just ignored!
Yep.
Post by Frank McCoy
Even in Miller v California, the current "standard" on which "obscene"
matters are judged, the Court noted that: "Obscene material may be
validly regulated by a State in the exercise of its traditional local
power to protect the general welfare of its population despite some
possible incidental effect on the flow of such materials across state
lines."
Note those words: "protect the general welfare of its population"
Protect the population from WHAT?
Obscene ideas?
Dirty thoughts?
Ideas that are DIFFERENT from what the local preachers teach?
Mainly, it's IDEAS that the local community find objectionable.
You know, the only difference between America and the former U.S.S.R. is
the nature of the ideas that were controlled. In America, it's sex, in the
former U.S.S.R. it was politics.
Post by Frank McCoy
Think about that.
The AIM is to control or at least LIMIT what people know and think.
Which is why, since the advent of the printing press, that printers in
Britain (and later, in her colonies) had to be licensed by the Crown.
Even in Shakespeare's time, his plays had to be submitted for approval to
the Master of the Revels, before they were allowed to be performed.
Post by Frank McCoy
Yet, it's that very control and limitation that the First Amendment
was written to stop.
Indeed. The First Amendment to your constitution was put in place precisely
because of the historical actions of the British Crown in suppressing the
free flow of ideas.
Actually, it was because all of Europe was bnurning people alipve at the
stake byi the thousands or hanging them or drawing and quartering because
they didn't adhere to the national religion. And the fact the the Puritans
brought that same religious intolerance with them. The Puritans wanted
freedom to practice their religion. No other religions need apply.
Post by Frank McCoy
Yet, for some reason, SEX seems to be the choking-point, even for
Supreme Court judges supposedly the very last stop in those protecting
our liberties.
I guess even THEY cannot get over the brainwashing built into our
society by preachers, customs, and yes, our modern media. ;-{
Does this really come as a surprise? After all, they are products of the
society in which they grew up.
Post by Frank McCoy
Well, at least they aren't *quite* as anti-sex as some communities in
the world; viz: Ayatollahs in Iran and similar Sharia controlled
Muslim lands.
I still wonder though: Why SEX?
Perhaps because sex is one of the common things all people/societies share
as a result of our biology. It transcends race, class and economic status.
Villification is how the unjust gain power. Whenever they want to sell a
really bad idea - from gun control to censorship - they used children. It's
always to "protect the children".
<snip>

America used to be a mostlt agrarian society. Most Americans grew up in
rural locations and very small towns. Back then children were adults and
married with children by 15 or so. A boy - or a man - getting a daughter
pregnant meant more help. Their parents set them up on a piece of land
shared by their families and they were able to plant and harvest bigger
crops. Then we began to get more urbanized. A pregnant daughter meant one
more mouth to feed. There was no land to divy up. There was no bigger crop
to plant to make more money. Usually, the family was just barely hanging in
there as it was. So getting pregnant out of wedlock became more and more a
big deal.

There wasnb't much choice for a girl. She could get married, become a
teacher, a maid, a laundress, a seamstress or a whore. A lot of young girls
chose to be whores. They had a small clientel of men from their
neighborhoods who they screwed for enough money to pay for housing, food,
whatever. Eventually many of them married one of their clients. As we became
more urban we villified that.
H. Jekyll
2010-06-26 19:00:16 UTC
Permalink
Adding curlies.

On Jun 26, 12:35 pm, "David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)"
I was recently moved to compose this rant.  With Frank's return it
seems approprate to post it.
Have we as a society grown so irrational and psychotic that we have to
be reminded that there is a boundary between the reality outside
our heads and the fantasies within?  Are we in danger of drifting into
a stupefied slumber where the figments of our dreams can claim the
rights that we have previously reserved for concrete entities?
The characters of fiction, written down as literature, drawn as manga
or anime, expressed in the multitude of means technology has granted
to us, lack independent agency.  By hijacking our mind's ability to
empathise and reason about other minds they create the cognitive
illusion that they exist.
However we must remember that without sentience, without true moral
agency, these mental phantasms whose pseudo-existence is purely within
the mind of there hosts can make no ethical claims to the concrete
world outside.  I can imagine the vilest crimes of crimes within my head
without harming a single creature of ethical consequence.  I can
commit fictional atrocities whose magnitude and horror eclipse the
worst tyrant's genocide but still act and be in every way a moral,
ethical contributor to society.
This fact should be obvious to every sane adult, indeed learning to
distinguish between the imaginary and the real is one of the
prerequisites for being an adult.  I should not need to devote three
paragraphs of text to hammering this point but unfortunately I feel I
must.  People have been charged, prosecuted and punished for this
style of thought crime.
If such actions where mistakes of a more censorious past one could
look back with the knowledge of lessons learned.  However not only are
real people being prosecuted for crimes against fake people in the
present laws are being passed to make it easier to prosecute this in
the future.
Brian G
2010-06-26 20:08:08 UTC
Permalink
Yes I do so agree with this.
Its as if just by having such thoughts, it makes you a bad person?


I've been judge this way by some ex friends who hav discoverd what I
consider to be trivia and accused me of depravity. I'm only depraved in my
fantasies and with consenting adults!

Surely to be human is to have the free will to do right or wrong, thankfully
most people do right by commanly accepted agreed standards. The fantasy is
there for us to explore our darker side and harm nobody.
It does frighten me a little to think that people can be condemned just by
things they write down.

I'm tempted to say get real, but that would not be right!

Brian
--
--
___________________________________________________________________________
I hope I grow on you....
I'm a Fungi!!!
***@blueyonder.co.uk
__________________________________________________________________________
***@hotmail.com
"H. Jekyll" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:431be8c1-2f1a-4bb1-9378-***@d8g2000yqf.googlegroups.com...
Adding curlies.

On Jun 26, 12:35 pm, "David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)"
I was recently moved to compose this rant. With Frank's return it
seems approprate to post it.
Have we as a society grown so irrational and psychotic that we have to
be reminded that there is a boundary between the reality outside
our heads and the fantasies within? Are we in danger of drifting into
a stupefied slumber where the figments of our dreams can claim the
rights that we have previously reserved for concrete entities?
The characters of fiction, written down as literature, drawn as manga
or anime, expressed in the multitude of means technology has granted
to us, lack independent agency. By hijacking our mind's ability to
empathise and reason about other minds they create the cognitive
illusion that they exist.
However we must remember that without sentience, without true moral
agency, these mental phantasms whose pseudo-existence is purely within
the mind of there hosts can make no ethical claims to the concrete
world outside. I can imagine the vilest crimes of crimes within my head
without harming a single creature of ethical consequence. I can
commit fictional atrocities whose magnitude and horror eclipse the
worst tyrant's genocide but still act and be in every way a moral,
ethical contributor to society.
This fact should be obvious to every sane adult, indeed learning to
distinguish between the imaginary and the real is one of the
prerequisites for being an adult. I should not need to devote three
paragraphs of text to hammering this point but unfortunately I feel I
must. People have been charged, prosecuted and punished for this
style of thought crime.
If such actions where mistakes of a more censorious past one could
look back with the knowledge of lessons learned. However not only are
real people being prosecuted for crimes against fake people in the
present laws are being passed to make it easier to prosecute this in
the future.
The Greatest
2010-06-30 02:16:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm back ... Sort of.
Sorry I can't talk about the case, except that it's still ongoing.
Judge Sands heard the case ... And hasn't made any rulings yet; either
on the motions or on the verdict itself.
As you can see, I just got permission to use the Internet, Usenet, and
Email.  I can't post stories and will not be discussing either stories
or the case.  Sorry.  Any posts or comments to me about either will be
ignored.  Still, things are better than they were.
I have *always* held that my stories are legal.
That being the basis of my entire defense.
Some people might say they are illegal, because of various laws.
Was it illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus?
Or ... Was the law itself illegal?
Sorry, but further than that, I won't be entering the discussion.
;-{
Wish I could.
I am so glad you are back, Frank. I have missed your stories. Here
in Arkansas we can't find stories like yours, prolly cause of Nazis
like Bob and Carol.

You Rock Frank!!!

--
HJ
Post by Frank McCoy
--
    _____
     /  '               / ™
  ,-/-, __  __.  ____  /_
 (_/   / (_(_/|_/ / <_/ <_
The Greatest
2010-06-30 02:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Frank McCoy
I'm back ... Sort of.
Sorry I can't talk about the case, except that it's still ongoing.
Judge Sands heard the case ... And hasn't made any rulings yet; either
on the motions or on the verdict itself.
As you can see, I just got permission to use the Internet, Usenet, and
Email. I can't post stories and will not be discussing either stories
or the case. Sorry. Any posts or comments to me about either will be
ignored. Still, things are better than they were.
I have *always* held that my stories are legal.
That being the basis of my entire defense.
Some people might say they are illegal, because of various laws.
Was it illegal for Rosa Parks to sit in the front of the bus?
Or ... Was the law itself illegal?
Sorry, but further than that, I won't be entering the discussion.
;-{
Wish I could.
I am so glad you are back, Frank. I have missed your stories. Here
in Arkansas we can't find stories like yours, prolly cause of Nazis
like Bob and Carol.

You Rock Frank!!!

--
Ferd Hall who has posted to 'alt.support.boy-lovers' 449 times!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Got "balls" ??
--
HJ

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