Hey Frank!

[Fastman®]

When will you know if you got the job?

Also, it appears that you are more of a hardware designer type guy,
right?
Got any chops on writing, or rather, refining already written,
computer programs?
TIA
--
Fastman®
A dunce for all seasons.
Founder & President, *Dunce of the Month Club*
Coordinator, *Yaks for the Yakless, International*
Voted *Usenets Most Trusted Person In History*, 1956 - 2005.
Declared *The Hardest Working Dunce In All Of Usenet*, 1963 - 2005.
Quote: "I have never met a dunce I've liked!"

---------
The preceding post was scanned for signs of
intelligence by DMC®'s *Smarts Scanner*, with the following results:
FAILED
-----------------
© Copyright All rights reserved. The information contained in this post may not be published,
broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written
authority of the DMC®. Small fee will be charged, of course.

[Frank McCoy]

Post by Fastman®
When will you know if you got the job?

The guy won't even SEE my application until (at the earliest) Monday.
He was on vacation last week.
Probably won't be until Tuesday (my guess) that he gets any time at
all for looking over applications; as he'll probably spend all the
first day back putting out fires that happened while he was gone.
I'd expect Wednesday at the earliest before I'd get a call to come in
for an interview (if I ever do); and then it would probably be a week
or two before he and Management would make any decisions. Possibly
another interview or two.

OTOH, sometimes things don't take nearly that long.
When They were looking for somebody at CDC all those years ago, I was
working there two days after I said I was interested.

Post by Fastman®
Also, it appears that you are more of a hardware designer type guy,
right?

Not really. I've kept my hand in on both.

Post by Fastman®
Got any chops on writing, or rather, refining already written,
computer programs?

Only about 20 years of doing just that.
About 50 computer languages, about 25 different assembly languages
including four different micro-assemblers, 5 different Pascals 10
different 'C' and 'C++' variations, and a bunch of others.

All done on various systems from VMS to DOS to Unix, and editors from
vi to ED to WORDSTAR to 20 different proprietary ones.

I'm probably the only person in the world to have written his own
editor (several), assembler (several), compiler, interpreter, own
language (VTL-2), and own operating-system.

VTL-2 (Developed with Gary Shannon at The Computer Store) sold over
2000 copies, without one user complaint. How many other commercial
programs can say the same?

One program I was responsible for, required intimate knowledge of FIVE
different programming languages at once; as it was supported with one
common source (for which I wrote automatic conversions) on three
separate platforms: Intel-based OS, HP-Unix, and MS-DOS,
There were THREE variants of 'C' alone, that the same program had to
run on without glitching. The other two languages were Pascal
(converted to 'C') and a micro-code assembly language that was the
interface to the actual disk-drives being controlled.

In another program, for another company, I *emulated* the entire
Mostek Development System on another computer, including emulating the
Z-80 in micro-code, the system ROMS, and redirecting the I/O, so that
you could insert a Mostek Diskette in the host computer; and the
Development System would run there as easily as on the "real thing".
This was done *mainly* because of lack of high-speed printers being
available for the Mostek System.

I could bore you for another couple of hours, telling about various
unique programs and software I've written.

Post by Fastman®
TIA

No charge.

[Fastman®]

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 19:58:35 -0500, Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com>
wrote:
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
When will you know if you got the job?

The guy won't even SEE my application until (at the earliest) Monday.
He was on vacation last week.
Probably won't be until Tuesday (my guess) that he gets any time at
all for looking over applications; as he'll probably spend all the
first day back putting out fires that happened while he was gone.
I'd expect Wednesday at the earliest before I'd get a call to come in
for an interview (if I ever do); and then it would probably be a week
or two before he and Management would make any decisions. Possibly
another interview or two.
OTOH, sometimes things don't take nearly that long.
When They were looking for somebody at CDC all those years ago, I was
working there two days after I said I was interested.

Post by Fastman®
Also, it appears that you are more of a hardware designer type guy,
right?

Not really. I've kept my hand in on both.

Post by Fastman®
Got any chops on writing, or rather, refining already written,
computer programs?

Only about 20 years of doing just that.
About 50 computer languages, about 25 different assembly languages
including four different micro-assemblers, 5 different Pascals 10
different 'C' and 'C++' variations, and a bunch of others.
All done on various systems from VMS to DOS to Unix, and editors from
vi to ED to WORDSTAR to 20 different proprietary ones.
I'm probably the only person in the world to have written his own
editor (several), assembler (several), compiler, interpreter, own
language (VTL-2), and own operating-system.
VTL-2 (Developed with Gary Shannon at The Computer Store) sold over
2000 copies, without one user complaint. How many other commercial
programs can say the same?
One program I was responsible for, required intimate knowledge of FIVE
different programming languages at once; as it was supported with one
common source (for which I wrote automatic conversions) on three
separate platforms: Intel-based OS, HP-Unix, and MS-DOS,
There were THREE variants of 'C' alone, that the same program had to
run on without glitching. The other two languages were Pascal
(converted to 'C') and a micro-code assembly language that was the
interface to the actual disk-drives being controlled.
In another program, for another company, I *emulated* the entire
Mostek Development System on another computer, including emulating the
Z-80 in micro-code, the system ROMS, and redirecting the I/O, so that
you could insert a Mostek Diskette in the host computer; and the
Development System would run there as easily as on the "real thing".
This was done *mainly* because of lack of high-speed printers being
available for the Mostek System.
I could bore you for another couple of hours, telling about various
unique programs and software I've written.

Post by Fastman®
TIA

No charge.

Holy mackerel! And *you* can't get a job?
Your credentials are impressive, and it's hard to understand why some
company hasn't snapped you up.
--
Fastman®
A dunce for all seasons.
Founder & President, *Dunce of the Month Club*
Coordinator, *Yaks for the Yakless, International*
Voted *Usenets Most Trusted Person In History*, 1956 - 2005.
Declared *The Hardest Working Dunce In All Of Usenet*, 1963 - 2005.
Quote: "I have never met a dunce I've liked!"

---------
The preceding post was scanned for signs of
intelligence by DMC®'s *Smarts Scanner*, with the following results:
FAILED
-----------------
© Copyright All rights reserved. The information contained in this post may not be published,
broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written
authority of the DMC®. Small fee will be charged, of course.

[Frank McCoy]

Post by Fastman®
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
When will you know if you got the job?

The guy won't even SEE my application until (at the earliest) Monday.
He was on vacation last week.
Probably won't be until Tuesday (my guess) that he gets any time at
all for looking over applications; as he'll probably spend all the
first day back putting out fires that happened while he was gone.
I'd expect Wednesday at the earliest before I'd get a call to come in
for an interview (if I ever do); and then it would probably be a week
or two before he and Management would make any decisions. Possibly
another interview or two.
OTOH, sometimes things don't take nearly that long.
When They were looking for somebody at CDC all those years ago, I was
working there two days after I said I was interested.

Post by Fastman®
Also, it appears that you are more of a hardware designer type guy,
right?

Not really. I've kept my hand in on both.

Post by Fastman®
Got any chops on writing, or rather, refining already written,
computer programs?

Only about 20 years of doing just that.
About 50 computer languages, about 25 different assembly languages
including four different micro-assemblers, 5 different Pascals 10
different 'C' and 'C++' variations, and a bunch of others.
All done on various systems from VMS to DOS to Unix, and editors from
vi to ED to WORDSTAR to 20 different proprietary ones.
I'm probably the only person in the world to have written his own
editor (several), assembler (several), compiler, interpreter, own
language (VTL-2), and own operating-system.
VTL-2 (Developed with Gary Shannon at The Computer Store) sold over
2000 copies, without one user complaint. How many other commercial
programs can say the same?
One program I was responsible for, required intimate knowledge of FIVE
different programming languages at once; as it was supported with one
common source (for which I wrote automatic conversions) on three
separate platforms: Intel-based OS, HP-Unix, and MS-DOS,
There were THREE variants of 'C' alone, that the same program had to
run on without glitching. The other two languages were Pascal
(converted to 'C') and a micro-code assembly language that was the
interface to the actual disk-drives being controlled.
In another program, for another company, I *emulated* the entire
Mostek Development System on another computer, including emulating the
Z-80 in micro-code, the system ROMS, and redirecting the I/O, so that
you could insert a Mostek Diskette in the host computer; and the
Development System would run there as easily as on the "real thing".
This was done *mainly* because of lack of high-speed printers being
available for the Mostek System.
I could bore you for another couple of hours, telling about various
unique programs and software I've written.

Post by Fastman®
TIA

No charge.

Holy mackerel! And *you* can't get a job?
Your credentials are impressive, and it's hard to understand why some
company hasn't snapped you up.

Right now, companies are still laying off programmers and/or shipping
the work to India.

[Fastman®]

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 12:15:39 -0500, Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com>
wrote:
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
When will you know if you got the job?

The guy won't even SEE my application until (at the earliest) Monday.
He was on vacation last week.
Probably won't be until Tuesday (my guess) that he gets any time at
all for looking over applications; as he'll probably spend all the
first day back putting out fires that happened while he was gone.
I'd expect Wednesday at the earliest before I'd get a call to come in
for an interview (if I ever do); and then it would probably be a week
or two before he and Management would make any decisions. Possibly
another interview or two.
OTOH, sometimes things don't take nearly that long.
When They were looking for somebody at CDC all those years ago, I was
working there two days after I said I was interested.

Post by Fastman®
Also, it appears that you are more of a hardware designer type guy,
right?

Not really. I've kept my hand in on both.

Post by Fastman®
Got any chops on writing, or rather, refining already written,
computer programs?

Only about 20 years of doing just that.
About 50 computer languages, about 25 different assembly languages
including four different micro-assemblers, 5 different Pascals 10
different 'C' and 'C++' variations, and a bunch of others.
All done on various systems from VMS to DOS to Unix, and editors from
vi to ED to WORDSTAR to 20 different proprietary ones.
I'm probably the only person in the world to have written his own
editor (several), assembler (several), compiler, interpreter, own
language (VTL-2), and own operating-system.
VTL-2 (Developed with Gary Shannon at The Computer Store) sold over
2000 copies, without one user complaint. How many other commercial
programs can say the same?
One program I was responsible for, required intimate knowledge of FIVE
different programming languages at once; as it was supported with one
common source (for which I wrote automatic conversions) on three
separate platforms: Intel-based OS, HP-Unix, and MS-DOS,
There were THREE variants of 'C' alone, that the same program had to
run on without glitching. The other two languages were Pascal
(converted to 'C') and a micro-code assembly language that was the
interface to the actual disk-drives being controlled.
In another program, for another company, I *emulated* the entire
Mostek Development System on another computer, including emulating the
Z-80 in micro-code, the system ROMS, and redirecting the I/O, so that
you could insert a Mostek Diskette in the host computer; and the
Development System would run there as easily as on the "real thing".
This was done *mainly* because of lack of high-speed printers being
available for the Mostek System.
I could bore you for another couple of hours, telling about various
unique programs and software I've written.

Post by Fastman®
TIA

No charge.

Holy mackerel! And *you* can't get a job?
Your credentials are impressive, and it's hard to understand why some
company hasn't snapped you up.

Right now, companies are still laying off programmers and/or shipping
the work to India.

I hear you, loud and clear.
FWIW, I might need your services, to refine an already working
"program", but, considering how, and where, we met, I am reluctant to
give you my personal information.
Not for any concern about you, but about other people that "monitor"
both of us.

Still, seeing as how I have been "retired" for almost 3 years, I think
we should be OK; however, our communications would need to be in PGP
type format.
You up for that?
TIA
--
Fastman®
A dunce for all seasons.
Founder & President, *Dunce of the Month Club*
Coordinator, *Yaks for the Yakless, International*
Voted *Usenets Most Trusted Person In History*, 1956 - 2005.
Declared *The Hardest Working Dunce In All Of Usenet*, 1963 - 2005.
Quote: "I have never met a dunce I've liked!"

---------
The preceding post was scanned for signs of
intelligence by DMC®'s *Smarts Scanner*, with the following results:
FAILED
-----------------
© Copyright All rights reserved. The information contained in this post may not be published,
broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written
authority of the DMC®. Small fee will be charged, of course.

[Frank McCoy]

Post by Fastman®
I hear you, loud and clear.
FWIW, I might need your services, to refine an already working
"program", but, considering how, and where, we met, I am reluctant to
give you my personal information.
Not for any concern about you, but about other people that "monitor"
both of us.

Seeing as everybody knows who I am, and I'm easy to find, I stopped
worrying when they didn't break down the door years ago and arrest me
for posting my stories.

Post by Fastman®
Still, seeing as how I have been "retired" for almost 3 years, I think
we should be OK; however, our communications would need to be in PGP
type format.
You up for that?
T

Somewhere around here I have a PGP program. Maybe more than one.
I've never installed it though. I finally decided NOT to install it
because:
A. I figured if anybody needed that much privacy when talking to me,
then it's better if they didn't; because (with the stories I write and
the groups I post in ... all legal, but ...) some cop, DA, or other
LEA could confisticate my computer on shaky grounds; and gather in all
the conversations I had anyway.
B. The *other* valid use for PGP (being a public-key crypto) is to
sign my posts, so others could be sure I was the one posting them. So
far, I've never seen a need for that.

Still, if you found it necessary, I suppose I could install something.

[Fastman®]

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:22:08 -0500, Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com>
wrote:
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
I hear you, loud and clear.
FWIW, I might need your services, to refine an already working
"program", but, considering how, and where, we met, I am reluctant to
give you my personal information.
Not for any concern about you, but about other people that "monitor"
both of us.

Seeing as everybody knows who I am, and I'm easy to find, I stopped
worrying when they didn't break down the door years ago and arrest me
for posting my stories.

Yes, as I said, my concern was not about you, but rather, more of a
concern for my safety.
IOW, people might indeed know who *you* are, but except for the Feds
that visited me a year, or so, ago, they don't know me.
I like it that way.

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
Still, seeing as how I have been "retired" for almost 3 years, I think
we should be OK; however, our communications would need to be in PGP
type format.
You up for that?
T

Somewhere around here I have a PGP program. Maybe more than one.
I've never installed it though. I finally decided NOT to install it
A. I figured if anybody needed that much privacy when talking to me,
then it's better if they didn't; because (with the stories I write and
the groups I post in ... all legal, but ...) some cop, DA, or other
LEA could confisticate my computer on shaky grounds; and gather in all
the conversations I had anyway.
B. The *other* valid use for PGP (being a public-key crypto) is to
sign my posts, so others could be sure I was the one posting them. So
far, I've never seen a need for that.
Still, if you found it necessary, I suppose I could install something.

Yes, initially at least, due to the proprietary information about the
program, PGP would be required.
If that is too much of an issue for you, then perhaps I need to
reconsider trying to utilize your talents.

I have forwarded your post containing some of your qualifications, to
my partner (who is in charge of the technical side of the program),
asking him if we could use your skills, to perform some of the
rewrites.
You two speak the same languages, unlike myself, who knows virtually
nothing, and I had hoped that you might be able to assist him as we
begin making major code changes to the program.

He may be reluctant to show anyone the source codes, but that is his
decision.

Let me know if you want to proceed.
TIA
--
Fastman®
A dunce for all seasons.
Founder & President, *Dunce of the Month Club*
Coordinator, *Yaks for the Yakless, International*
Voted *Usenets Most Trusted Person In History*, 1956 - 2005.
Declared *The Hardest Working Dunce In All Of Usenet*, 1963 - 2005.
Quote: "I have never met a dunce I've liked!"

---------
The preceding post was scanned for signs of
intelligence by DMC®'s *Smarts Scanner*, with the following results:
FAILED
-----------------
© Copyright All rights reserved. The information contained in this post may not be published,
broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written
authority of the DMC®. Small fee will be charged, of course.

[Fastman®]

On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 21:22:08 -0500, Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com>
wrote:
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
I hear you, loud and clear.
FWIW, I might need your services, to refine an already working
"program", but, considering how, and where, we met, I am reluctant to
give you my personal information.
Not for any concern about you, but about other people that "monitor"
both of us.

Seeing as everybody knows who I am, and I'm easy to find, I stopped
worrying when they didn't break down the door years ago and arrest me
for posting my stories.

Post by Fastman®
Still, seeing as how I have been "retired" for almost 3 years, I think
we should be OK; however, our communications would need to be in PGP
type format.
You up for that?
T

Somewhere around here I have a PGP program. Maybe more than one.
I've never installed it though. I finally decided NOT to install it
A. I figured if anybody needed that much privacy when talking to me,
then it's better if they didn't; because (with the stories I write and
the groups I post in ... all legal, but ...) some cop, DA, or other
LEA could confisticate my computer on shaky grounds; and gather in all
the conversations I had anyway.
B. The *other* valid use for PGP (being a public-key crypto) is to
sign my posts, so others could be sure I was the one posting them. So
far, I've never seen a need for that.
Still, if you found it necessary, I suppose I could install something.

My associate asked me, to ask you, the following:
TIA
--=Fastman=--

He certainly sounds like an expert programmer to me!
Can you ask him if he's had any experience with the following:

* Perl
* PHP
* database access from Perl
* encryption in general, or GPG specifically
* CGI

Please let him know that these are not requirements... but ask him if
he doesn't have any experience with one or more of these, if he feels
that he could possibly learn them?

Also, ask if he works well via e-mail without much verbal (phone)
contact? That would be a big plus.

Also, could you please tell me his name? If the name is one name
in particular, which I can't think of at the moment, but would
immediately recognize, then the answer is absolutely NO. But if the
name is something else, I'm quite open to having him help out.

(The name wasn't yours, it was another programmer I know, who is very
difficult to work with. - - - -FM.)

[Frank McCoy]

Post by Fastman®
TIA
--=Fastman=--
He certainly sounds like an expert programmer to me!
* Perl

A tiny bit.
I wrote a couple of programs in Perl, back when I was first setting up
my webpage; long before it moved to where it is now.

But then, after running the programs for about 3 months, the ISP I had
then decided not to allow CGI scripts for non-commercial users. So, I
had to pull it out.

I did a fair gig with Javascript for a while; and studied Java; though
never really used the second.

Post by Fastman®
* PHP

Nope.

Post by Fastman®
* database access from Perl

Nope. Sorry.

Post by Fastman®
* encryption in general, or GPG specifically

*Some* familiarity with encryption and how it works; though no direct
experience except my own encryption methods. Usually, when I need
things like that (algorithms) I generally go find a generally-accepted
algorithm in books, net, or other public source, rewrite it to fit the
language and package I'm using, and fit it in as a module.

For my own encryption, I haven't usually needed anything as strong as
PGP or even DES. I've just written "quick and dirty" single-key
stuff; because that's all I've needed.

BTW, are you SURE he didn't mean "PGP, not "GPG"?

Mostly, to remain compatible, you generally use a module or object
that's Public Domain; and then just use the interface hooks to
whatever program you want. You don't usually rewrite the module from
scratch; though that can be fun too.

Post by Fastman®
* CGI

Only the tiny bit mentioned above.
Probably forgotten what little I knew about Gateway Interfaces; but
expect I could pick it back up easily enough.

Post by Fastman®
Please let him know that these are not requirements... but ask him if
he doesn't have any experience with one or more of these, if he feels
that he could possibly learn them?

Never really had any problems picking up new languages, systems, or
packages. It's easiest of course, if you have an existing program to
modify to make what you want, rather than starting from scratch if
it's unfamiliar in one or more of these.

Post by Fastman®
Also, ask if he works well via e-mail without much verbal (phone)
contact? That would be a big plus.

I *think* so. I've only done a little long-distance stuff; and then
it was just writing something to order.

Post by Fastman®
Also, could you please tell me his name?

Frank McCoy.

Post by Fastman®
If the name is one name
in particular, which I can't think of at the moment, but would
immediately recognize, then the answer is absolutely NO.

Well ... If it's the guy who writes sex-stories, then that's me!

Post by Fastman®
But if the
name is something else, I'm quite open to having him help out.
(The name wasn't yours, it was another programmer I know, who is very
difficult to work with. - - - -FM.)

Like I said, if PGP (or other) is really required, then no problem.
I *have* the book and CD around here somewhere.
All I need to do is install it.
Oh yeah ... and test it.

[Fastman®]

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 20:44:16 -0500, Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com>
wrote:
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
TIA
--=Fastman=--
He certainly sounds like an expert programmer to me!
* Perl

A tiny bit.
I wrote a couple of programs in Perl, back when I was first setting up
my webpage; long before it moved to where it is now.
But then, after running the programs for about 3 months, the ISP I had
then decided not to allow CGI scripts for non-commercial users. So, I
had to pull it out.
I did a fair gig with Javascript for a while; and studied Java; though
never really used the second.

Post by Fastman®
* PHP

Nope.

Post by Fastman®
* database access from Perl

Nope. Sorry.

Post by Fastman®
* encryption in general, or GPG specifically

*Some* familiarity with encryption and how it works; though no direct
experience except my own encryption methods. Usually, when I need
things like that (algorithms) I generally go find a generally-accepted
algorithm in books, net, or other public source, rewrite it to fit the
language and package I'm using, and fit it in as a module.
For my own encryption, I haven't usually needed anything as strong as
PGP or even DES. I've just written "quick and dirty" single-key
stuff; because that's all I've needed.
BTW, are you SURE he didn't mean "PGP, not "GPG"?
Mostly, to remain compatible, you generally use a module or object
that's Public Domain; and then just use the interface hooks to
whatever program you want. You don't usually rewrite the module from
scratch; though that can be fun too.

Post by Fastman®
* CGI

Only the tiny bit mentioned above.
Probably forgotten what little I knew about Gateway Interfaces; but
expect I could pick it back up easily enough.

Post by Fastman®
Please let him know that these are not requirements... but ask him if
he doesn't have any experience with one or more of these, if he feels
that he could possibly learn them?

Never really had any problems picking up new languages, systems, or
packages. It's easiest of course, if you have an existing program to
modify to make what you want, rather than starting from scratch if
it's unfamiliar in one or more of these.

Post by Fastman®
Also, ask if he works well via e-mail without much verbal (phone)
contact? That would be a big plus.

I *think* so. I've only done a little long-distance stuff; and then
it was just writing something to order.

Post by Fastman®
Also, could you please tell me his name?

Frank McCoy.

Post by Fastman®
If the name is one name
in particular, which I can't think of at the moment, but would
immediately recognize, then the answer is absolutely NO.

Well ... If it's the guy who writes sex-stories, then that's me!

Post by Fastman®
But if the
name is something else, I'm quite open to having him help out.
(The name wasn't yours, it was another programmer I know, who is very
difficult to work with. - - - -FM.)

Like I said, if PGP (or other) is really required, then no problem.
I *have* the book and CD around here somewhere.
All I need to do is install it.
Oh yeah ... and test it.

Frank,
It is now apparent to me that PGP is necessary.
If you wish to continue this discussion, and I hope you do, please
install PGP, create an RSA key, and let's exchange keys.
If not, then no harm done.
TIA


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M5V8X#0IE:'%H,31&;G%';6%M9T)0=E9E8DU(-'$K339$:D94-W=H844Q5DEI
M<FA7;TDV56]M5&DY4T54<65A=E%U2%0O#0IM-C`W.#5W>%I4.%8Y8S9&>%HO
M.3-#>#1'<***@S>&1E<F)).&M2-6ME04MA<R\P5G134EHT1&1%,VTT<'A#4BMV
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M2V-T5U,W=VYG>2]&-TA!2E$P>***@K2&1:8U)"264R2%5,<D=#14-08WI'.3-S
M=%5.<C9L,%E&>$AN#0IH43T]#0H]5F-!2PT*+2TM+2U%***@4$=0(%!50DQ)
20R!+***@0DQ/0TLM+2TM+0T*
`
end

[Frank McCoy]

Post by Fastman®
It is now apparent to me that PGP is necessary.
If you wish to continue this discussion, and I hope you do, please
install PGP, create an RSA key, and let's exchange keys.

OK.
May take a couple of days before I get it working though.
Like I said: Just never felt any need for it before.
Didn't want anybody sending me porn, because they felt secure.

[Fastman®]

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 10:31:26 -0500, Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com>
wrote:
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
It is now apparent to me that PGP is necessary.
If you wish to continue this discussion, and I hope you do, please
install PGP, create an RSA key, and let's exchange keys.

OK.
May take a couple of days before I get it working though.
Like I said: Just never felt any need for it before.
Didn't want anybody sending me porn, because they felt secure.

OK, BTW, I sent my associate your reply, and he said:
--
Fastman®
A dunce for all seasons.
Founder & President, *Dunce of the Month Club*
Coordinator, *Yaks for the Yakless, International*
Voted *Usenets Most Trusted Person In History*, 1956 - 2005.
Declared *The Hardest Working Dunce In All Of Usenet*, 1963 - 2005.
Quote: "I have never met a dunce I've liked!"

---------
The preceding post was scanned for signs of
intelligence by DMC®'s *Smarts Scanner*, with the following results:
FAILED
-----------------
© Copyright All rights reserved. The information contained in this post may not be published,
broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written
authority of the DMC®. Small fee will be charged, of course.

[Fastman®]

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 10:31:26 -0500, Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com>
wrote:
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
It is now apparent to me that PGP is necessary.
If you wish to continue this discussion, and I hope you do, please
install PGP, create an RSA key, and let's exchange keys.

OK.
May take a couple of days before I get it working though.
Like I said: Just never felt any need for it before.
Didn't want anybody sending me porn, because they felt secure.

Crap!
And he said:

Sounds great. It sounds like he is willing to learn this stuff.
I haven't made up my wish list (yet) but a couple of the big overhauls
I wanted to make involve stuffing all the data in a secure (encrypted)
database. But if he's willing to learn it, then it still may be a
possibility.

Oh, and GPG is the Gnu version of PGP: http://www.gnupg.org/index.html
GPG is *much* friendlier to the programmer, whereas PGP is a royal
pain to work with from a programming point of view.
--
Fastman®
A dunce for all seasons.
Founder & President, *Dunce of the Month Club*
Coordinator, *Yaks for the Yakless, International*
Voted *Usenets Most Trusted Person In History*, 1956 - 2005.
Declared *The Hardest Working Dunce In All Of Usenet*, 1963 - 2005.
Quote: "I have never met a dunce I've liked!"

---------
The preceding post was scanned for signs of
intelligence by DMC®'s *Smarts Scanner*, with the following results:
FAILED
-----------------
© Copyright All rights reserved. The information contained in this post may not be published,
broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written
authority of the DMC®. Small fee will be charged, of course.

[Frank McCoy]

Post by Fastman®
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
It is now apparent to me that PGP is necessary.
If you wish to continue this discussion, and I hope you do, please
install PGP, create an RSA key, and let's exchange keys.

OK.
May take a couple of days before I get it working though.
Like I said: Just never felt any need for it before.
Didn't want anybody sending me porn, because they felt secure.

Crap!
Sounds great. It sounds like he is willing to learn this stuff.
I haven't made up my wish list (yet) but a couple of the big overhauls
I wanted to make involve stuffing all the data in a secure (encrypted)
database. But if he's willing to learn it, then it still may be a
possibility.
Oh, and GPG is the Gnu version of PGP: http://www.gnupg.org/index.html
GPG is *much* friendlier to the programmer, whereas PGP is a royal
pain to work with from a programming point of view.

OK.
It'll probably be about Monday or Tuesday before I get PGP installed.
Not that I *couldn't* get it in earlier, if there is a rush.
It's just that Friday is about over, and The Easter Weekend coming up.
We have guests coming over Sunday ... Which means cleaning the whole
house up Saturday. ;-}

My computer is *finally* getting back to where everything is working
the way I want it to. It's simply amazing how fucked-up (Pardon my
French.) a system can get if you have as much *junk* installed as I
do, and you then go and install a new motherboard.

Most people just don't have the crap on their computer I do.
Of course, the biggest problems were caused by the super video-board
with everything, that insists on being the *first* thing installed
after Windows itself ... and THEN only installs through the install
program, not an INF file. That means, if the video gets fucked-up,
and you reinstall windows, Windows then asks for the video-CD and
files on it which don't exist ... So the video no longer works; yet
Windows keeps insisting on reinstalling it. So ... you have to scrap
*everything* and install Windows from scratch ... and then install
*everything* all over again. Heaven help you if you lost any
installation disks or files. I finally had to remove my old SCSI
board, because the new motherboard just *would NOT* work with it.
;-{

No more spare drives.

Sorry. Just griping.
Most people don't have such problems. With the kid, all I had to do
was a normal reinstall of Windows when putting in a new ma-board.
Everything back to working in about half an hour.

But, like I said, everything seems to be back to working now.
I think I'll do a BIG backup though, before installing PGP.

[Fastman®]

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 18:10:25 -0500, Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com>
wrote:
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
It is now apparent to me that PGP is necessary.
If you wish to continue this discussion, and I hope you do, please
install PGP, create an RSA key, and let's exchange keys.

OK.
May take a couple of days before I get it working though.
Like I said: Just never felt any need for it before.
Didn't want anybody sending me porn, because they felt secure.

Crap!
Sounds great. It sounds like he is willing to learn this stuff.
I haven't made up my wish list (yet) but a couple of the big overhauls
I wanted to make involve stuffing all the data in a secure (encrypted)
database. But if he's willing to learn it, then it still may be a
possibility.
Oh, and GPG is the Gnu version of PGP: http://www.gnupg.org/index.html
GPG is *much* friendlier to the programmer, whereas PGP is a royal
pain to work with from a programming point of view.

OK.
It'll probably be about Monday or Tuesday before I get PGP installed.
Not that I *couldn't* get it in earlier, if there is a rush.
It's just that Friday is about over, and The Easter Weekend coming up.
We have guests coming over Sunday ... Which means cleaning the whole
house up Saturday. ;-}

No rush at all. I would suggest however, that you install the GPG
program (it's free) from the link above, as that is what my associate
uses, for the reasons he stated.
The public keys for each program are easily accepted by each other.

Post by Frank McCoy
My computer is *finally* getting back to where everything is working
the way I want it to. It's simply amazing how fucked-up (Pardon my
French.) a system can get if you have as much *junk* installed as I
do, and you then go and install a new motherboard.

Yes, I completely understand that from my own past experiences.

Post by Frank McCoy
Most people just don't have the crap on their computer I do.
Of course, the biggest problems were caused by the super video-board
with everything, that insists on being the *first* thing installed
after Windows itself ... and THEN only installs through the install
program, not an INF file. That means, if the video gets fucked-up,
and you reinstall windows, Windows then asks for the video-CD and
files on it which don't exist ... So the video no longer works; yet
Windows keeps insisting on reinstalling it. So ... you have to scrap
*everything* and install Windows from scratch ... and then install
*everything* all over again. Heaven help you if you lost any
installation disks or files. I finally had to remove my old SCSI
board, because the new motherboard just *would NOT* work with it.
;-{
No more spare drives.

That's a bummer. Had similar issues with my HP SCSI tape drive, and
my new motherboard. Tried everything I knew, and that was suggested
by other's, all to no avail.
Finally, in desperation, I scrapped the HP tape drive, bought a new
Sony tape drive, new ASUS P4G8X motherboard, and still had problems.
The Sony drive wouldn't install due to a lack of drivers.
I updated Win 2k, got all the new drivers, and still the darned thing
wouldn't install, because of a driver issue.
I called Sony, and they said that they didn't have any drivers, but
the software program, that the drive uses for backups (Veritas *Backup
Exec*) , had the drivers.
Or, they said that perhaps my SCSI card needed to be updated.

I just couldn't believe that the Sony drive didn't have it's own
drivers, but if that's what they said, "they" being the senior tech
support department, then it must be true.
It just didn't make any sense that the hardware depended on a third
party software program to supply drivers.

Veritas said they didn't write drivers, just software.
Now *that* was what I thought all along.

While I was waiting for all the different "tech" people to call me
back, I ordered a new Adaptec SCSI card, installed, and still had the
same problem with the drive not installing.

When next I spoke to Sony, they just happened to mention their
website, in connection with how to return the drive.

I zoomed over to their site, spent about 5 minutes snooping around,
located the drivers, DL'd them, and in less than 5 minutes, had the
new drive installed and working like a charm.

I then called Sony's "senior tech" department back, got all 3 of them
on the line, and asked them again, if they were positive that they
didn't have any drivers for the drive they sold.
They assured me that they didn't.
I then instructed them to go and visit their own company's website,
and look at section "so and so", and explain to me, why the drivers
were indeed there?

They were dumbfounded.
I called them all morons, and hung up.

So, their incompetence cost me 3 days of lost time, and an additional
$200 for the new SCSI card, that I didn't need, and a virtual ton of
frustration.
Bah!

Post by Frank McCoy
Sorry. Just griping.
Most people don't have such problems. With the kid, all I had to do
was a normal reinstall of Windows when putting in a new ma-board.
Everything back to working in about half an hour.
But, like I said, everything seems to be back to working now.
I think I'll do a BIG backup though, before installing PGP.

..... again, I suggest GPG.<s>

But, you have just reminded me that it is time for me to do my monthly
complete system backup .... using my very nice Sony tape drive.<BG>
--
Fastman®
A dunce for all seasons.
Founder & President, *Dunce of the Month Club*
Coordinator, *Yaks for the Yakless, International*
Voted *Usenets Most Trusted Person In History*, 1956 - 2005.
Declared *The Hardest Working Dunce In All Of Usenet*, 1963 - 2005.
Quote: "I have never met a dunce I've liked!"

---------
The preceding post was scanned for signs of
intelligence by DMC®'s *Smarts Scanner*, with the following results:
FAILED
-----------------
© Copyright All rights reserved. The information contained in this post may not be published,
broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written
authority of the DMC®. Small fee will be charged, of course.

[Frank McCoy]

Post by Fastman®
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
It is now apparent to me that PGP is necessary.
If you wish to continue this discussion, and I hope you do, please
install PGP, create an RSA key, and let's exchange keys.

OK.
May take a couple of days before I get it working though.
Like I said: Just never felt any need for it before.
Didn't want anybody sending me porn, because they felt secure.

Crap!
Sounds great. It sounds like he is willing to learn this stuff.
I haven't made up my wish list (yet) but a couple of the big overhauls
I wanted to make involve stuffing all the data in a secure (encrypted)
database. But if he's willing to learn it, then it still may be a
possibility.
Oh, and GPG is the Gnu version of PGP: http://www.gnupg.org/index.html
GPG is *much* friendlier to the programmer, whereas PGP is a royal
pain to work with from a programming point of view.

OK.
It'll probably be about Monday or Tuesday before I get PGP installed.
Not that I *couldn't* get it in earlier, if there is a rush.
It's just that Friday is about over, and The Easter Weekend coming up.
We have guests coming over Sunday ... Which means cleaning the whole
house up Saturday. ;-}

No rush at all. I would suggest however, that you install the GPG
program (it's free) from the link above, as that is what my associate
uses, for the reasons he stated.
The public keys for each program are easily accepted by each other.

Post by Frank McCoy
My computer is *finally* getting back to where everything is working
the way I want it to. It's simply amazing how fucked-up (Pardon my
French.) a system can get if you have as much *junk* installed as I
do, and you then go and install a new motherboard.

Yes, I completely understand that from my own past experiences.

Post by Frank McCoy
Most people just don't have the crap on their computer I do.
Of course, the biggest problems were caused by the super video-board
with everything, that insists on being the *first* thing installed
after Windows itself ... and THEN only installs through the install
program, not an INF file. That means, if the video gets fucked-up,
and you reinstall windows, Windows then asks for the video-CD and
files on it which don't exist ... So the video no longer works; yet
Windows keeps insisting on reinstalling it. So ... you have to scrap
*everything* and install Windows from scratch ... and then install
*everything* all over again. Heaven help you if you lost any
installation disks or files. I finally had to remove my old SCSI
board, because the new motherboard just *would NOT* work with it.
;-{
No more spare drives.

That's a bummer. Had similar issues with my HP SCSI tape drive, and
my new motherboard. Tried everything I knew, and that was suggested
by other's, all to no avail.
Finally, in desperation, I scrapped the HP tape drive, bought a new
Sony tape drive, new ASUS P4G8X motherboard, and still had problems.
The Sony drive wouldn't install due to a lack of drivers.
I updated Win 2k, got all the new drivers, and still the darned thing
wouldn't install, because of a driver issue.
I called Sony, and they said that they didn't have any drivers, but
the software program, that the drive uses for backups (Veritas *Backup
Exec*) , had the drivers.
Or, they said that perhaps my SCSI card needed to be updated.
I just couldn't believe that the Sony drive didn't have it's own
drivers, but if that's what they said, "they" being the senior tech
support department, then it must be true.
It just didn't make any sense that the hardware depended on a third
party software program to supply drivers.
Veritas said they didn't write drivers, just software.
Now *that* was what I thought all along.
While I was waiting for all the different "tech" people to call me
back, I ordered a new Adaptec SCSI card, installed, and still had the
same problem with the drive not installing.
When next I spoke to Sony, they just happened to mention their
website, in connection with how to return the drive.
I zoomed over to their site, spent about 5 minutes snooping around,
located the drivers, DL'd them, and in less than 5 minutes, had the
new drive installed and working like a charm.
I then called Sony's "senior tech" department back, got all 3 of them
on the line, and asked them again, if they were positive that they
didn't have any drivers for the drive they sold.
They assured me that they didn't.
I then instructed them to go and visit their own company's website,
and look at section "so and so", and explain to me, why the drivers
were indeed there?
They were dumbfounded.
I called them all morons, and hung up.
So, their incompetence cost me 3 days of lost time, and an additional
$200 for the new SCSI card, that I didn't need, and a virtual ton of
frustration.
Bah!

Heh. WHY does that all sound oh-so-familiar?

Post by Fastman®

Post by Frank McCoy
Sorry. Just griping.
Most people don't have such problems. With the kid, all I had to do
was a normal reinstall of Windows when putting in a new ma-board.
Everything back to working in about half an hour.
But, like I said, everything seems to be back to working now.
I think I'll do a BIG backup though, before installing PGP.

..... again, I suggest GPG.<s>

Just got the latest PGP from MIT.
AND ... For historical reasons, the old 2.6 version.
Both interfaces seem to work easily enough; though I could see some
command-line-shy people having troubles with 2.6

The new graphical interface is nice; but I'm glad they included the
old command-line interface too. The nicest thing about the later
version is the ability to use it on the clipboard as well as a file.

Post by Fastman®
But, you have just reminded me that it is time for me to do my monthly
complete system backup .... using my very nice Sony tape drive.<BG>

[Fastman®]

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 18:18:54 -0500, Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com>
wrote:
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
and just had to say the following...

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
It is now apparent to me that PGP is necessary.
If you wish to continue this discussion, and I hope you do, please
install PGP, create an RSA key, and let's exchange keys.

OK.
May take a couple of days before I get it working though.
Like I said: Just never felt any need for it before.
Didn't want anybody sending me porn, because they felt secure.

Crap!
Sounds great. It sounds like he is willing to learn this stuff.
I haven't made up my wish list (yet) but a couple of the big overhauls
I wanted to make involve stuffing all the data in a secure (encrypted)
database. But if he's willing to learn it, then it still may be a
possibility.
Oh, and GPG is the Gnu version of PGP: http://www.gnupg.org/index.html
GPG is *much* friendlier to the programmer, whereas PGP is a royal
pain to work with from a programming point of view.

OK.
It'll probably be about Monday or Tuesday before I get PGP installed.
Not that I *couldn't* get it in earlier, if there is a rush.
It's just that Friday is about over, and The Easter Weekend coming up.
We have guests coming over Sunday ... Which means cleaning the whole
house up Saturday. ;-}

No rush at all. I would suggest however, that you install the GPG
program (it's free) from the link above, as that is what my associate
uses, for the reasons he stated.
The public keys for each program are easily accepted by each other.

Post by Frank McCoy
My computer is *finally* getting back to where everything is working
the way I want it to. It's simply amazing how fucked-up (Pardon my
French.) a system can get if you have as much *junk* installed as I
do, and you then go and install a new motherboard.

Yes, I completely understand that from my own past experiences.

Post by Frank McCoy
Most people just don't have the crap on their computer I do.
Of course, the biggest problems were caused by the super video-board
with everything, that insists on being the *first* thing installed
after Windows itself ... and THEN only installs through the install
program, not an INF file. That means, if the video gets fucked-up,
and you reinstall windows, Windows then asks for the video-CD and
files on it which don't exist ... So the video no longer works; yet
Windows keeps insisting on reinstalling it. So ... you have to scrap
*everything* and install Windows from scratch ... and then install
*everything* all over again. Heaven help you if you lost any
installation disks or files. I finally had to remove my old SCSI
board, because the new motherboard just *would NOT* work with it.
;-{
No more spare drives.

That's a bummer. Had similar issues with my HP SCSI tape drive, and
my new motherboard. Tried everything I knew, and that was suggested
by other's, all to no avail.
Finally, in desperation, I scrapped the HP tape drive, bought a new
Sony tape drive, new ASUS P4G8X motherboard, and still had problems.
The Sony drive wouldn't install due to a lack of drivers.
I updated Win 2k, got all the new drivers, and still the darned thing
wouldn't install, because of a driver issue.
I called Sony, and they said that they didn't have any drivers, but
the software program, that the drive uses for backups (Veritas *Backup
Exec*) , had the drivers.
Or, they said that perhaps my SCSI card needed to be updated.
I just couldn't believe that the Sony drive didn't have it's own
drivers, but if that's what they said, "they" being the senior tech
support department, then it must be true.
It just didn't make any sense that the hardware depended on a third
party software program to supply drivers.
Veritas said they didn't write drivers, just software.
Now *that* was what I thought all along.
While I was waiting for all the different "tech" people to call me
back, I ordered a new Adaptec SCSI card, installed, and still had the
same problem with the drive not installing.
When next I spoke to Sony, they just happened to mention their
website, in connection with how to return the drive.
I zoomed over to their site, spent about 5 minutes snooping around,
located the drivers, DL'd them, and in less than 5 minutes, had the
new drive installed and working like a charm.
I then called Sony's "senior tech" department back, got all 3 of them
on the line, and asked them again, if they were positive that they
didn't have any drivers for the drive they sold.
They assured me that they didn't.
I then instructed them to go and visit their own company's website,
and look at section "so and so", and explain to me, why the drivers
were indeed there?
They were dumbfounded.
I called them all morons, and hung up.
So, their incompetence cost me 3 days of lost time, and an additional
$200 for the new SCSI card, that I didn't need, and a virtual ton of
frustration.
Bah!

Heh. WHY does that all sound oh-so-familiar?

Such scenarios are typical nowadays, what with all the outsourcing for
customer support.

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®

Post by Frank McCoy
Sorry. Just griping.
Most people don't have such problems. With the kid, all I had to do
was a normal reinstall of Windows when putting in a new ma-board.
Everything back to working in about half an hour.
But, like I said, everything seems to be back to working now.
I think I'll do a BIG backup though, before installing PGP.

..... again, I suggest GPG.<s>

Just got the latest PGP from MIT.
AND ... For historical reasons, the old 2.6 version.
Both interfaces seem to work easily enough; though I could see some
command-line-shy people having troubles with 2.6
The new graphical interface is nice; but I'm glad they included the
old command-line interface too. The nicest thing about the later
version is the ability to use it on the clipboard as well as a file.

Yep, I too prefer the older versions, for many reasons.
For our communications, PGP is fine by me, although, once again, I
suggest you check out GPG for programming uses.

Post by Frank McCoy

Post by Fastman®
But, you have just reminded me that it is time for me to do my monthly
complete system backup .... using my very nice Sony tape drive.<BG>

--
Fastman®
A dunce for all seasons.
Founder & President, *Dunce of the Month Club*
Coordinator, *Yaks for the Yakless, International*
Voted *Usenets Most Trusted Person In History*, 1956 - 2005.
Declared *The Hardest Working Dunce In All Of Usenet*, 1963 - 2005.
Quote: "I have never met a dunce I've liked!"

---------
The preceding post was scanned for signs of
intelligence by DMC®'s *Smarts Scanner*, with the following results:
FAILED
-----------------
© Copyright All rights reserved. The information contained in this post may not be published,
broadcast or otherwise distributed without the prior written
authority of the DMC®. Small fee will be charged, of course.

[? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}]

Frank McCoy <***@millcomm.com> writes:

[...]

Post by Frank McCoy
I'm probably the only person in the world to have written his own
editor (several), assembler (several), compiler, interpreter, own
language (VTL-2), and own operating-system.

What about RMS? He would fullfill that list as well I beleave.

[Frank McCoy]

In alt.fan.frank.mccoy ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}

Post by ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}
[...]

Post by Frank McCoy
I'm probably the only person in the world to have written his own
editor (several), assembler (several), compiler, interpreter, own
language (VTL-2), and own operating-system.

What about RMS? He would fullfill that list as well I beleave.

RMS?

[? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}]

Post by Frank McCoy
In alt.fan.frank.mccoy ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}

Post by ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}
[...]

Post by Frank McCoy
I'm probably the only person in the world to have written his own
editor (several), assembler (several), compiler, interpreter, own
language (VTL-2), and own operating-system.

What about RMS? He would fullfill that list as well I beleave.

RMS?

Richard M Stallman, the founder of GNU. He wrote his own editor (Gnu
Emacs), Assembler, compiler (GCC) interpreter and language (elisp),
and own operating-system (A very large part of linux was contributed
by him and his team as well as his ongoing GNU project that is
creating anouther OS).

[Frank McCoy]

In alt.fan.frank.mccoy ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}

Post by ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}

Post by Frank McCoy
In alt.fan.frank.mccoy ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}

Post by ? the Platypus {aka David Formosa}
[...]

Post by Frank McCoy
I'm probably the only person in the world to have written his own
editor (several), assembler (several), compiler, interpreter, own
language (VTL-2), and own operating-system.

What about RMS? He would fullfill that list as well I beleave.

RMS?

Richard M Stallman, the founder of GNU. He wrote his own editor (Gnu
Emacs), Assembler, compiler (GCC) interpreter and language (elisp),
and own operating-system (A very large part of linux was contributed
by him and his team as well as his ongoing GNU project that is
creating anouther OS).

Oh. I was under the impression that Gnu was actually a cooperative
and ongoing project at some university.